Advice! Part One of DJ Setup: Buying the right laptop (pc or...mac?)

[usdm]

Yeah i think Lance is the one that touched on the really important question here.

Its not Mac or PC its : Are you prepared and tech savy enough or even bothered and have the inclination to tweak a laptop to any extent other than actually turning it ON.

I am not.

I hate tweaking laptops, i cant ! ... I know fuck all about suspending system resources.
I dont want to know about Spikes and pops and crackles or how to cure them. Id rather spend my time looking at my own arse.

I have enough tech knowledge to do what i want to do with my DJ laptop and thats enough for me.

Buying an iBook 5years ago (after years of Graphic Design work on PC) was and total enlightenment. After that i got a Macbook Pro and today i have a brand new Macbook Pro.

I know people with great PC laptops that run just as well as my Mac but all of them down to the last one had to work,tweak and adjust there machines. Some of them enjoy it, they like getting under the hood . The other it drove crazy. I am not a tweaker.

I read with horror the thread about Dell laptops on the NI forum. God knows what those guys must be going through to stop the pops and crackles.

I bought an MBP last week, opened the box , copied my iTunes library over, installed Traktor and DJd for 7 hours with it the same night with out a single issue.

Im sure some pc guys could say the same, but not many.

If your like me and you dont like getting you pretty hands dirty go Mac.
If your tech savy and prepared for some work go PC.

This is just my opinion based on what ive experienced on another forum.

[dont buy a Toshiba]

I was pretty much set on buying a PC laptop, but reading this, Im re-thinking it.

[mmauve]

Alright, heres my advice as I was in the same position as the OP a couple of months ago. With that price range (assuming $1000 is *slightly* flexible, but not much), you can pretty much go either route you want, and still get great performance.

Heres my personal advice:

Don't use a Hackintosh. OSX will run, sure, but unless you have experience handling terminal command line, kext files, and general BSD experience, you will be pulling your hair out with all the stuff which may not work. It's a tinkering platform which has some functionality and great future potential, but ask yourself this: is it worth gambling the foundations you do your music work on just to save a little money? (yes, a little, cause I will cover costs in a minute).

Assuming you don't have experience handling OSX on an in-depth level, or experience with BSD, then you are reliant on the Hackintosh community to resolve any bugs, malfunctions, or issues you have. Also, you can bet updating your OS will not be easy, and Apple has shown they are cracking down on this stuff (link here).

If you plan to buy a PC laptop - buy from RjTech (Click Here):
RjTech deals with ODM (Original Design Manufacturer) sales, to give you an idea of what that means to you and your wallet: you get the laptop before places like Dell slap their logo on it, bloatware, and warranty on it, and therefore hike the price up. Yes, believe it or not, places like Dell don't make their own hardware, they are an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer), meaning they send specifications to the ODM, the ODM makes it, the OEM buys it, and resells at a higher price.

In general, you can get solid deals from RjTech, with plenty of options for customization to really suit your needs.

If you plan on buy a MacBook Pro 13" - buy refurbished! (Click Here):
There are so many reasons to buy refurbished from Apple. It's hard to go wrong with almost a $300 discount, and any potential issues with a new buy already addressed. They come with a 1 year Apple warranty for hardware, and 3 months phone support (same as a new MacBook Pro purchase), and are eligible for an extended 2 year AppleCare warranty within that first year for about $250. Out the door, the refurbished MacBook Pro 13" I linked to comes out to $1096.

If you plan to score one on Craigslist for cheap, I recommend the following:
Bear in mind, this is how I scored my MacBook Pro 15" Unibody (2.66ghz, 4GB, 320GB HD, 512MB dedicated VRAM) for $1000 on Craigslist - a guy who was desperate to get his car repaired (replacement transmission, ouch!). In this economy, there are alot of people who are unloading luxuries at fairly low prices, and occasionally, at absurd prices, and as the saying goes: "their loss, your gain". It sucks to capitalize on other peoples misfortunes, but if you don't take advantage of the opportunity, someone else gladly will.

• Setup an RSS feed on craigslist for a search quary on "MacBook Pro": This will allow you to see new postings on the fly as they are published, and snag deals before anyone else does. To create an RSS feed on a search quary, run a search on Craigslist, then scroll to the bottom of the screen and click the yellow "RSS" icon, and bookmark that page. Timing is key when getting the perfect deal, and I waited patiently for 3 months before I found mine. In the end, it was worth it, and the RSS feed made it possible for me to jump on it before anyone else.
• Insure that the MacBook is within one year of its original purchase date: This will allow you to buy extended coverage on it and further insure that your purchase was a sound decision. If the buyer cannot provide a receipt, request a serial number from them and run it through this warranty check on Apple's website (Click Here) to verify warranty validity, and eligibility for purchasing the extended AppleCare coverage.
  If the seller doesn't know how to find the serial number:
  1.) Click on the Apple icon in the upper left corner of the screen.
  2.) Click on "About This Mac"
  3.) Click on "More Info"
  4.) In the right pane of the window that pops up, is a "Serial Number (system)" field, highlight and copy that.
  5.) Paste that into the link I provided above to verify warranty coverage information and options.
  
• Check the physical condition: No warranty from Apple, factory or extended, covers accidental damage of any sort. Be careful buying a MacBook which has dents on it, as this is an indication of excessive physical trauma (according to Apple), and could cause problems down the road when Apple renders any service to your MacBook. Scuffing and scratches are purely about what you are willing to live with. Mine has some, but I slapped a hard case on it and I couldn't care less.
• If you feel the purchase is shady, ask for proof of ownership: It happens occasionally in San Francisco, but I have almost bought a stolen MacBook Pro before (wouldn't even have guessed or seen it coming), and the results could have been disastrous. Apple can and will bar serial numbers reported stolen, preventing you from getting support or any services for your purchase. Ask why the seller is getting rid of it, and if they reply with something like "Oh, because I forgot the password to the user account", you can bet it's a fishy deal.

The above considerations will help you make a sound buying decision, and allow you to afford what you want at your price range. My recommendation would be to buy the refurbished MacBook Pro 13" I posted, unless you can live a while and wait for the right deal to come along.

As far as Mac vs. PC - it's about as pointless as the old Technics vs. Vestax debate when it comes to turntables. Use what you like, both have perks and advantages, but at the end of the day, it's just a tool which allows your creativity to flourish. I'm an MCSE and work with Windows servers, workstations, and also hold a degree in related fields of networking and security. I work with Windows OS in all flavors day in and day out, and love it for the compatibility, support for different technologies, and cost ratio for new hardware. I also love my Mac cause the user experience is rich, intuitive, and stable.

Also, as far as a 13" being suitable for Traktor, I personally believe it is, especially when you run in full screen mode. If you plan on doing production of any type on it, I recommend buying a low cost, high resolution external monitor to give more screen real estate. This will run you in the ballpark of $140 or so.

Hope that helps

[LanceBlaise]

If you plan on buy a MacBook Pro 13" - buy refurbished! (Click Here):
There are so many reasons to buy refurbished from Apple. It's hard to go wrong with almost a $300 discount, and any potential issues with a new buy already addressed. They come with a 1 year Apple warranty for hardware, and 3 months phone support (same as a new MacBook Pro purchase), and are eligible for an extended 2 year AppleCare warranty within that first year for about $250. Out the door, the refurbished MacBook Pro 13" I linked to comes out to $1096.

I bought my studio Mac refurbished... and I got such a great deal... plus the warrantee is exactly the same as a brand new Mac and the computer is as new as it gets.

all the advice you gave was great!

[Karlos Santos]

There are about 6 different patches for Hackintosh

I recommend researching OSX86 users with an exact model or similar to your machine,
& install which ever they used.

*First* burn "Gparted" (freeware) so you can boot back into windows
encase anything messes up during your OSX installation or boot..
none of the directions I used mention that...

Then add a Partition, download, burn, install etc..

Youtube all this stuff for set by step.

But Stephen this is like a 'third way'. If your not tech savy people say get a Mac, if you are tech savy get a PC. This Hackintosh way requires a lot of knowledge.
Also you will get zero support from NI if you buy Traktor Scratch Pro if your using a Hack.

Just a thought.

[Segfault]

Alright, heres my advice as I was in the same position as the OP a couple of months ago. With that price range (assuming $1000 is *slightly* flexible, but not much), you can pretty much go either route you want, and still get great performance.

Heres my personal advice:

Don't use a Hackintosh. OSX will run, sure, but unless you have experience handling terminal command line, kext files, and general BSD experience, you will be pulling your hair out with all the stuff which may not work. It's a tinkering platform which has some functionality and great future potential, but ask yourself this: is it worth gambling the foundations you do your music work on just to save a little money? (yes, a little, cause I will cover costs in a minute).

Assuming you don't have experience handling OSX on an in-depth level, or experience with BSD, then you are reliant on the Hackintosh community to resolve any bugs, malfunctions, or issues you have. Also, you can bet updating your OS will not be easy, and Apple has shown they are cracking down on this stuff (link here).

If you plan to buy a PC laptop - buy from RjTech (Click Here):
RjTech deals with ODM (Original Design Manufacturer) sales, to give you an idea of what that means to you and your wallet: you get the laptop before places like Dell slap their logo on it, bloatware, and warranty on it, and therefore hike the price up. Yes, believe it or not, places like Dell don't make their own hardware, they are an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer), meaning they send specifications to the ODM, the ODM makes it, the OEM buys it, and resells at a higher price.

In general, you can get solid deals from RjTech, with plenty of options for customization to really suit your needs.

If you plan on buy a MacBook Pro 13" - buy refurbished! (Click Here):
There are so many reasons to buy refurbished from Apple. It's hard to go wrong with almost a $300 discount, and any potential issues with a new buy already addressed. They come with a 1 year Apple warranty for hardware, and 3 months phone support (same as a new MacBook Pro purchase), and are eligible for an extended 2 year AppleCare warranty within that first year for about $250. Out the door, the refurbished MacBook Pro 13" I linked to comes out to $1096.

If you plan to score one on Craigslist for cheap, I recommend the following:
Bear in mind, this is how I scored my MacBook Pro 15" Unibody (2.66ghz, 4GB, 320GB HD, 512MB dedicated VRAM) for $1000 on Craigslist - a guy who was desperate to get his car repaired (replacement transmission, ouch!). In this economy, there are alot of people who are unloading luxuries at fairly low prices, and occasionally, at absurd prices, and as the saying goes: "their loss, your gain". It sucks to capitalize on other peoples misfortunes, but if you don't take advantage of the opportunity, someone else gladly will.

• Setup an RSS feed on craigslist for a search quary on "MacBook Pro": This will allow you to see new postings on the fly as they are published, and snag deals before anyone else does. To create an RSS feed on a search quary, run a search on Craigslist, then scroll to the bottom of the screen and click the yellow "RSS" icon, and bookmark that page. Timing is key when getting the perfect deal, and I waited patiently for 3 months before I found mine. In the end, it was worth it, and the RSS feed made it possible for me to jump on it before anyone else.
• Insure that the MacBook is within one year of its original purchase date: This will allow you to buy extended coverage on it and further insure that your purchase was a sound decision. If the buyer cannot provide a receipt, request a serial number from them and run it through this warranty check on Apple's website (Click Here) to verify warranty validity, and eligibility for purchasing the extended AppleCare coverage.
  If the seller doesn't know how to find the serial number:
  1.) Click on the Apple icon in the upper left corner of the screen.
  2.) Click on "About This Mac"
  3.) Click on "More Info"
  4.) In the right pane of the window that pops up, is a "Serial Number (system)" field, highlight and copy that.
  5.) Paste that into the link I provided above to verify warranty coverage information and options.
  
• Check the physical condition: No warranty from Apple, factory or extended, covers accidental damage of any sort. Be careful buying a MacBook which has dents on it, as this is an indication of excessive physical trauma (according to Apple), and could cause problems down the road when Apple renders any service to your MacBook. Scuffing and scratches are purely about what you are willing to live with. Mine has some, but I slapped a hard case on it and I couldn't care less.
• If you feel the purchase is shady, ask for proof of ownership: It happens occasionally in San Francisco, but I have almost bought a stolen MacBook Pro before (wouldn't even have guessed or seen it coming), and the results could have been disastrous. Apple can and will bar serial numbers reported stolen, preventing you from getting support or any services for your purchase. Ask why the seller is getting rid of it, and if they reply with something like "Oh, because I forgot the password to the user account", you can bet it's a fishy deal.

The above considerations will help you make a sound buying decision, and allow you to afford what you want at your price range. My recommendation would be to buy the refurbished MacBook Pro 13" I posted, unless you can live a while and wait for the right deal to come along.

As far as Mac vs. PC - it's about as pointless as the old Technics vs. Vestax debate when it comes to turntables. Use what you like, both have perks and advantages, but at the end of the day, it's just a tool which allows your creativity to flourish. I'm an MCSE and work with Windows servers, workstations, and also hold a degree in related fields of networking and security. I work with Windows OS in all flavors day in and day out, and love it for the compatibility, support for different technologies, and cost ratio for new hardware. I also love my Mac cause the user experience is rich, intuitive, and stable.

Also, as far as a 13" being suitable for Traktor, I personally believe it is, especially when you run in full screen mode. If you plan on doing production of any type on it, I recommend buying a low cost, high resolution external monitor to give more screen real estate. This will run you in the ballpark of $140 or so.

Hope that helps

+1

This is probably the most useful post on this thread so far.

[BradCee]

Thanks for the advice, people. Can I ask what laptops you guys have?

hmmm.... sneaky market research?

anyhoo, acer aspire5315, 2ghz celeron 2gb ram, windows 7. streamlined to within an inch of it's life to get as smooth as possible performance.
runs perfectly, even under the pressure of 4 decks and fx running.

[JesC]

damn 7 pages on what type of laptop a dj should get...just look at what the pro's use.

They get whats works best and a machine that hardly fails. They play for 10's of thousands of people and they rely on a mac. I dont want to sound like a Mac commercial, with the PC vs MAC but there gears works, and you pay a premium for that.

The way i see it when i comes to digital dj-ing, its doesnt matter if you play for 10 or 10000 people, the 1st time you pc or mac takes a crap on you during your gig, club goers, promoters, and club owners are going to notice. And word will get around. And chances are you not going to be getting booked anymore.

If you have the money to burn, get a mac, if not get a pc for 1/2 the price & make sure to have plenty of time to "tweak" & work the bugs out of the drivers, ac power adapter, virus, malware, spam and so on.

I use PC at work & Mac's at home and for dj-ing. I used to hate mac cuz it was out of my price range. But once I saved my pennies in my little piggy bank and I had enough for a mac, I bought it...and im glad I did.

[LiveFastStephen]

But Stephen this is like a 'third way'. If your not tech savy people say get a Mac, if you are tech savy get a PC. This Hackintosh way requires a lot of knowledge.
Also you will get zero support from NI if you buy Traktor Scratch Pro if your using a Hack.

Just a thought.

What?! (no support even when you bought Traktor on crack OS)

Man though i don't fully agree with NI on that, damn, In a way I guess it makes sense... Maybe they see it as: a hacker is hacker, whether its hacking just to hack, or the one thing you've hacked.. *& enviably there going to hack programs to put on the OS*.. So even if you have proof you bought TSP it sounds like they take it like your asking for a replacement tire you bought with insurance, but since it's on a stolen rim, they point at the contract you singed & call security to throw you out haha I guess if i was to elaborate in some prospective id sound like a criminal with justification skills. hahah so ill drop it

(Cracked Windows Traktor SP Version 1.1.2 From Experience: Is Not Stable only "dj's" that like complete stalls & having to reload the program would use/preform with it)

[Karlos Santos]

Stephen dude, please, get real. They can only give support on systems with an OS that NI Officially Support because the developers and support staff have to test and provide support on those systems. Thats the same for any software house.

NI cant support a Hackintosh or even use a Hackintosh to test. Apple would fuck them up the legal ass if they found out.

You can say you dont fully agree with it but you know its right!
Its not a stance against anything , its common sense.

[usdm]

So, after looking around a bit, this caught my attention:

HP EliteBook 8530p Notebook

Intel Centrino 2 vPro Core 2 Duo T9400 2.53GHz
4GB DDR2 SDRAM w/ max cap @8GB

Interface Ports:

1 RJ-11
1 RJ-45
4 4-pin Type A USB 2.0 - USB
1 IEEE 1394a - FireWire
1 x Mini-phone Stereo Microphone
1 x Mini-phone Stereo Audio Out
1 x Docking
1 x HDMI
1 x Travel Battery Connector
1 x VGA
1 x eSATA
1 ExpressCard/54

Unfortunately, it does have stupid vista, but it comes with a downgrade option for xp. Not a big fan of either, but its looking like this machine might be a contender anyway.

The search continues....