Traktor Scratch Poor (a.k.a. Ghetto Timecode Control)

[lethal_pizzle]

I'm with you Karlos.

At the end of the day people who have paid for their software should not tolerate or offer support to those who have stolen theirs; money lost due to piracy would be spent on making the software better for those that have stumped up for it.

[insurgentdjs]

Karlos, you trolled quite well, so well in fact that I had to register an account just to respond. I am a proud owner of TSP, have been since it was released. It is truly a great piece of software; the Photoshop (or better, Pixelmator ) of DJing tools. When I'm gigging, I use my activated copy with my Audio 8, but when I record at home, I am actually stuck using a cracked copy . The "loophole" actually closes a very legitimate use case; that is, the ability to record Traktor's output (while using control vinyl) to a multitrack (Logic), with additional hardware (think a sampler, I wrote one for my nokia n810 with 32 pads that I use for drops/airhorns, since there is no sampler in Traktor) routed to a seperate track. In fact, using a legitimate copy makes it impossible to use control vinyl and route the audio to anything other than Traktor's internal recorder (which, lets face it, is pretty basic and a far cry from NMX). It also means that instead of doing a mix, and playing with my other gear as well during that mix (and archiving it for posterity ), I'd have to record the entire set in traktor first, then open the wav in a DAW, and play my other gear over it (which doubles the time to record a set, plus completely takes away the 'live' element). I've noticed that you have ties to NI, and if you're _really_ feeling like offering solutions, the solution to this is easy: NI needs to add JACK-esque routing functionality to its Audio2/4/8 drivers. Done deal. Not rocket science either, and it would go quite a long way in establishing that link to that other piece of software that I just don't "get," Ableton Live. At least you'd be able to scratch a chorus on top of a beat and have Traktor send the audio into a clip. Traktor is very important for production, not just live dj'ing, it's very important not to forget that I don't intend to start a flame war or anything, and this particular "feature" is kinda dubious, but you have to remember that this is a professional piece of software, with a lot of power users. Music software unlike any other genre of software, is likely to have completely different uses (and sometimes means to the same end) depending on the user (or superstar DJ). When you remove functionality (or in this case, a loophole), you can also (inadvertently) break the workflow of other paying NI supporters. I guess it just comes down to this: There's always someone that uses the same software that you do, in a way that you'd never imagine (and since we're talking software, sometimes that means doing things you aren't "supposed to do" to make it work). I'd like to hear what you guys think of this use-case (seems pretty basic to me, Traktor users shouldn't be stuck with either Native Record or external hardware on a hardware mixer to record (I don't even use a hw mixer, midi controller + tables) )/ driver idea.

P.S: My multitrack setup is simply JackOSX, Traktor Scratch Pro, and Logic, if anyone was wondering the missing link to actually route the audio.

P.P.S.: In-driver audio routing would certainly be a big selling point on NI's Audio interfaces, wouldn't it? Esp. when compared to an SL-1 that doesn't interface with other audio apps AT ALL Also, the in-driver solution would mean that NI wouldn't have to waste time w/ say, a TSP VSTi/AU (which isn't likely anyway), and would have the side effect of allowing a user to use a standalone ver of Reaktor/Absynth/whatever and route its output into Logic/Live/Renoise/whatever (note that in this case, you'd probably be using the VSTi/AU ver of those particular NI apps, but for apps where no VSTi/AU exists..... pure gold!

[BentoSan]

^^ he has a point

I was kinda personally let down by the fact they were going to close this loophole because it means when i get some control vinyl i wont be able to port my audio into Ableton and still be able to use control vinyl.

[DvlsAdvct]

But can't you just route Traktor into Logic the same way Bento has Traktor routed into Ableton?

[insurgentdjs]

You can use JackOSX to route its audio with a normal copy of Traktor Scratch Pro, just not with timecode enabled (since you'd be using JackOSX as the "interface," even though it is only acting as a wrapper for the A8DJ. Ruins it for us hip-hop guys, nobody wants to multitrack a midi-triggered scratch chorus w/ no actual scratching Hell, no hip-hop DJ would want to record externally if it means no timecode, period.

[DvlsAdvct]

Ah, gotcha.

[Karlos Santos]

I hear ya and i understand.

NMX will be brought back and then i guess NI are covered.

I guess NI got a little bit sick of loads of people posting You Tube videos describing how ro use a Torrent version of Traktor and a Maya or, in the case of one the members of this forum a Hercules RMX, with absolutley no interest in a "legitimate use case".

The Ableton thing isnt really NIs problem though. NIs problem is software piracy. NI are hit hard by it. Much more so than Ableton and hugely more than SSL which is pretty much unaffected by piracy.
Im sure there is another way round it. I dont use Ableton so i dont know.

Weve all been watching people start threads and issuing instructions to bypass NIs hardware and make the use of cracked/hacked software all over the place .
Did anyone actually expect NI to sit back and let this happen..?

There has been an influx of people posting at Traktor forums asking how to achieve ghetto timecode and all state that they have read that it is possible on 'other forums'.
One guy actually argued with a member calling him a liar when he stated that he need an NI interface.

Im afraid that the popularity of this ghetto timecode thing simply proves that it is primarily being used for illicit uses.

Oh and guys, this was gonna be closed anyway. NI discovered it long before this thread. But it was because various You Tube videos and the obvious, blatant illicit use of torrent versions TSP that motivated them to do it.
I dare say this thread had a hand in it as well.

As for trolling , i dunno. Im pretty involved in this forum. I like to help and i 'seem' to have a good rap-our with some members/mods. I didnt really Troll i just didnt get involved cus i posted one post and it all got a bit dramatic so i pulled the post.






Im sorry guys but lets take a hypothectical here:

Ean Golden and the DJTTs team work really hard and release FW1.3.

Its great and loads of us buy it. (it being their hard work)

Someone finds a way of flash-updating the VCI from the laptop (like i say hypothetical) thus no need of the DJTTs FW upgrade. You can simple download it from a torrent.

Anyone here gonna admit that they would use the torrent?

I know i wouldnt . Id buy it.

I understand that there may be legitimate uses of the loophole but the damage done by the loophole is VAST and it far outways any legitimate use.

I know nothing i can say will convince some people.

So be it.

[BentoSan]

Im sorry guys but lets take a hypothectical here:

Ean Golden and the DJTTs team work really hard and release FW1.3.

Its great and loads of us buy it. (it being their hard work)

Someone finds a way of flash-updating the VCI from the laptop (like i say hypothetical) thus no need of the DJTTs FW upgrade. You can simple download it from a torrent.

Anyone here gonna admit that they would use the torrent?

To be honest we don't make much money off those firmware update kits at all, its mostly provided as a service to the community. So if someone was to work out a way how to update the device without a USB kit we would be glad to encourage that people use the hacked way provided it was as stable as our firmware update kits.

If NI were to just make sure an Audio 4 or 8 was plugged in to allow the timecode control and not bother which actual interface was in use that would be the best of both worlds for me. Then users could still use jack and timecode at the same time - i think how they approach blocking out this functionality is very important.

[insurgentdjs]

Hmm, I stay the hell away from Youtube for anything technical, so I can't comment too much there. Note that my frustration has nothing to do w/ Ableton, that would just be a side-effect if things were done right. NMX doesn't solve this particular problem, unfortunately, it's just much better than the Fisher-Price Record Button (which for a lot of people is fine/the easiest way for them to simply record and spin a set). Adding a little piece of functionality to drivers that you _NEED_ NI hardware hooked up to use (combined with the closing of said loophole) is NI's perfect TSP anti-piracy solution. Kids using onboard audio for Vinyl control won't show the product in a good light, but you also can't have pirated copies with more features than the legit copies (aside from activation, and let's face it, NI's activation system is fine, at least I've never personally had a problem with it). That just looks _BAD_ and encourages more piracy.

P.S.: I'm not asking for some magic midi/osc-synched bridge between any 2 particular programs, just the ability to route Traktor's audio out to somewhere more useful. The magic comes when people start using it

P.P.S: Sorry for calling you a troll, I do know that you're quite involved in the community, but that 3rd sentence was a doozy, so I had to prove that there was 1 single solitary edge-as-all-hell case where said loophole was helpful. It just happened to be a big one that surprisingly, nobody else seems to have thought of/banged their head against yet

[BentoSan]

Who said the pirated version have more functionality ?

I highly doubt any of the hacker groups will unlock the any soundcard functionality if NI closes the loophole