ITCH vs Scratch Live, Controller's vs CDJ's.

[mostapha]

A few responses.

I honestly think that mixer choice is probably the most important decision. For me the only controller's mixer section that I've felt that comes anywhere close to feeling right is the xone:dx. It feels better than a lot of real mixers and makes every other controller I've felt feel like a toy…including the Vestax ones for some reason (I normally love vestax mixers). I'm not sure that anything will make me give up having a mixer. The VCM-600 was close, but it was always an expensive compromise.

Itch vs. SSL vs. Traktor vs. whatever is just a preference thing. Frankly, I don't fault you for pirating Traktor before you boy it as an extended demo. 30 minute limits are annoying, more so than 30-day limits and almost as much as crippled versions. I have bought and sold SSL at a loss twice. The idea of it is amazing to me, but in the end…it just doesn't jive with what I do. Traktor didn't either until a few months ago…now I'm wondering if I'll ever do a full DJ set in Live or actually start on working live production stuff into my set. My advice: try everything, even if it means limited versions, shady methods, or bugging the crap out of GC employees while you try to spin a set on demo equipment…it's not the worst thing that happened to them at work that day, I promise.

If you do decide to go the CD route, there's nothing wrong with just burning CDs or using a USB key if you can. I have to disagree with will (whom I greatly respect) about CDs. It is a step backwards in some senses ( looping (anything), quantization (Traktor, Torq, Live), remix capabilities(Live) ). But in the end, all DJs do is play other people's music in a (hopefully) unique, creative, and entertaining way. Whatever tools you use, use. I think that it's a LOT easier to learn how to be really good on CDs or Vinyl just because there's less you can do to truly mangle a good song, though it's obviously not universal (will is an example).

In addition, I find it easier to stand there and wait for a track to play out the way I want with CDJs in front of me than with a laptop in front of me. It's a personal problem, and it's responsible for me leaning a bit away from Ableton recently. If you find yourself constantly needing things to do while mixing on a computer or ruining tracks with cue points and effects, CDs might be the answer at least for a while.

While you're in that $~500 price range, however…if you can, give the Reloop RMP-3 a play. I've heard some really good things about it from at least one person I trust. It seems to be an almost-built-as-well-knock-off CDJ-1000 that can control Traktor if you choose for it to, does some effects, and apparently handles in a class close to top-end Pioneer decks of not too long ago…for $500.

I'm not advocating buying them blind, but they might be worth looking into. I'm probably going to pick one up in a few weeks because I kind of want to learn to scratch. I'm also just really curious. The guy who recommended them to me is very good, and we tend to agree on equipment a good bit of the time with obvious concessions because we spin very different genres.

Sorry about the wall of text…I can't sleep.

[Bassline Brine]

Thanks for the reply's guys. It sounds like honestly I should probably just lean down the path of CDJ's, even though it is not the "step forward" that would be nice. It's older technology that's still powerful.

I could see myself easily getting distracted by FX and looping, and all sorts of toys with mixing. One of the reasons why I couldn't deal with Ableton as a DJing interface, because I constantly get side-tracked with various things, and don't end up doing the proper prep with a set.

Keeping it simple, two TT's and a mixer, and then adding additional control/effects seems like the way to go.

And all signs point to SSL over ITCH, and so that puts me back in the realm of CDJ's instead of controllers.

Who knows, maybe in time once I feel comfortable with the basics, then I may make a move onto Traktor or the like. But for now, I really feel like I need to learn how to walk. I understand the concept, but it's something I can't do WELL yet. I mean hell, my mixing abilities are fast cuts at the moment, and that's unacceptable to me.

Really going to give the price tag on the CDJ-850's another go.

[BennyJ]

What dont u like about traktor? And u dont HAVE to sync at all. I dont use sync unless im doing crazy 4 deck mixing or something.But its ur choice. The S1 has nothing on the ns6. Slip mode is cool, but if u wanna do that, load the same track on other deck, sync them and then mess around with it and fade back into the original track playing. Its not hard. The only reason someone would buy the s1 is cuz its a pioneer, nothing more nothing less. IMO cdj's are cool but im a digital guy i love controllers and everything involved in them. And u dont NEED TT's to LEARN how to mix. I dont see why ppl say that, its not a matter of life and death, u can learn on controllers just fine.

[willrjmarshall]

If you do decide to go the CD route, there's nothing wrong with just burning CDs or using a USB key if you can. I have to disagree with will (whom I greatly respect) about CDs. It is a step backwards in some senses ( looping (anything), quantization (Traktor, Torq, Live), remix capabilities(Live) ). But in the end, all DJs do is play other people's music in a (hopefully) unique, creative, and entertaining way.

I guess my dislike of CDJs is for several reasons. Firstly, because feature-for-feature they are vastly more expensive than controller setups. I ran the numbers (for NZ) last night, and to get a very basic CDJ setup in New Zealand you're looking at $3500+ (NZ dollars). By comparison, top-end controllers are running for $1500.

The other big thing to consider is that CDJ/mixer setups aren't portable, and can't be taken to clubs/festivals easily. In theory venues have their own: in practice these are usually a combination of broken, crappy or absent.

[xtianw]

numark rep told me at namm that the ns6 wont be out till june.

serato rep confirmed the bridge and video sl as well as "something huge for itch users" this year.

pioneer rep told me the S1 will be in stores middle of feb.

hope that helps you decide

[DJaccro]

I started on vinyl, had SSL and when the NS7 came out had that as well, and played on the VCI300. I currently own the Xone DX and recommend it hard. Although half the DX owns will bitch about bugs and software issues, I have either been fortunate or never had any issues aside from pioneering the DX software when it was first released, but that was a given.

The NS7 was tight but definitely not portable for dropping into a random dj booth, so my preference for someone on a budget would be a VCI300 as you can easily set it up atop any turntable or cdj if needed.

The Xone on the other hand can do the same. I also have a hard top cover to protect the faders and knobs, which conveniently happens to fit perfectly over the record pin on a turntable, and also clears a cdj's buttons and all nicely as well. Topping it off with 4 deck mixing, 2 effect banks and looping control the only thing Im really missing now is the wireless smart pad for my macbook. The only time I ever touch the computer is to either search a song or click somewhere on the screen. For 1500 you have whats listed above, and I also map it for ableton and logic when playing with my production software...and when ITCH 2.0 comes out, soon enough, Im sure that will have the bridge and more effects... or 1500 for a used setup of cdjs and 2 channel mixer(and maybe a coffin if lucky) @50lbs of carrying weight?? Not for me anymore..

As well as swapping DJs its easier IMO having my own controller i plug into a channel on the main mixer and Im off and going...and yeah yeah theres the SL4 with 2 usb hubs or the rane 58 or whatever thats makes swapping easier but what club is running out to buy more equipment to make the DJ swap easier??

As far as the NS6, the 4 deck mixing will be cool, but still not portable enough to take into a club and set up, unless your the resident DJ who opens and closes the night.

Its opinion really, and some will say you need to pay your dues learning to beat match and use turntable and all this crap, but the technology really takes out the learning curve, via beatgrids and all the xtra bpm feedback.

Traktor is cool, I just have to much time spent already in serato cue'ing music, beat gridding and stored info that I would have to start over if i switched.

[mostapha]

I guess my dislike of CDJs is for several reasons. Firstly, because feature-for-feature they are vastly more expensive than controller setups. I ran the numbers (for NZ) last night, and to get a very basic CDJ setup in New Zealand you're looking at $3500+ (NZ dollars). By comparison, top-end controllers are running for $1500.

The other big thing to consider is that CDJ/mixer setups aren't portable, and can't be taken to clubs/festivals easily. In theory venues have their own: in practice these are usually a combination of broken, crappy or absent.

You're right. But having traveled with CDJs and Turntables, they are portable. It's a pain in the butt, but it is doable…possibly not as practical at a festival, and get insurance, but it's doable.

Also, the cost thing is the reason why I use Traktor at all. It would be more of a PITA, but I'd prefer CDJs. I can't afford the upgrade. That's why I used CDJs and (to less of an extent) SSL until I switched entirely to Live…now, switching back, I can't afford the CDJs I want and Traktor is the next best thing. As far as actual capabilities, CDJs aren't missing but one or two features, and Traktor is almost as reliable.

[Bassline Brine]

I've decided to go with CDJ's. Straight up, no DVS involved for the time being.

As I'm not able to make the outright purchase right away, I spent today running around getting burnable CD's and a label making kit. I highly expect the next couple weeks to be full of making a quality and organized CD collection.

What it comes down to now is how exactly I want to organize my collection. I'm going to do some more research tonight into methods other folks have used successfully. I really like the idea of 1:1 song to CD (and any remixs of a given song). It seems like the most logistically simple way to go about organizing. But as I said, looking into other options.

I like turntables, but CD's are a form of media I can manipulate. And while wanting to keep things as "simple" as possible, this seems like the best road to walk down. It's kind of a hybrid between traditional and digital, and I like that. I mean, it's what many many people use currently, and so there's got to be something to be said for it.

(Also posted the above on the DJForums post I have going).

I know in this digital age it might seem like a step backwards to not fully embrace the magic that is some digital options out there. But I think I was to build a foundation before I start getting even more technical. And that's what it comes down to.

With a CDJ setup, I can always add a DVS and computer into the mix LATER. And I don't HAVE to have one. It gives me the most modularity and available options. I really like some of the controllerism stuff and extra control. I can really see myself incorporating LIVE into my sets into the future. But I'm not there yet.

It's not super cost friendly, but I'm pretty sure I can get away with it for cheaper than you might expect.

It's funny. I first went to college for Architecture. I had done a semester internship at an architecture firm in high school. I was all about it. And then we had to draw, and I hate drawing. The internship at the actual firm was 100% computer aided design. I asked the program director about it, and they explained it as "learning to walk before you can run" so to speak. If I can draw it by hand, then I can definitely do it on a computer. I transferred out of the program, but that lesson stuck with me. And I think it's totally applicable here.