studio monitors

**DMurd** · 02-03-2010, 08:25 PM

this is a lot of good information guys. and this definatly swayed my thinking a bit and made look into find a good speaker set for now (and save a bit of money). and just get a pair of studio monitors down the road

i was looking at the M-audio AV-40's . for mixing and, because i live in a apartment and don't want something to crazy...yet. do you guys think that these will be a good set of speakers to start of with? or any recommendations.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...phileAV40.html

P.s thanks alot lanceBaise and everybody else very informative

**DMurd** · 02-03-2010, 08:27 PM

and still very tempted to get a pair of studio monitors though :/

**LanceBlaise** · 02-03-2010, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by DMurd

and still very tempted to get a pair of studio monitors though :/

you can buy a pair of studio monitors to dj with, just don't share them as production monitors... even if you get those m-audios you just posted as dj speakers i think you can still get the monitors that i suggested you get. You are new to producing i take it, so those will be good for you right now. maybe 2 years down the rad you can step up to a different speaker, but i think what i showed you is a great start!

**nem0nic** · 02-03-2010, 08:50 PM

Generally, I let this stuff slide, but I'm chiming in here...

If you're producing and writing music then you probably aren't going to need a subwoofer for a long time, especially if you don't have a treated room with bass traps and the like.

The whole "you don't use subs with studio monitors" thing is completely false.

The whole point of a reference setup is to reproduce the music in an accurate way. If the musical content you're working on has a lot of content below what your speakers will accurately produce, then YOU NEED a sub to reproduce those frequencies. Most dance music has a lot of content a 5-7" speakers isn't going to be able to accurately reproduce. Your mixes are going to sound bass heavy on a decent system because your monitoring is lacking and you're likely compensating for that in your mix.

This doesn't just manifest itself by you twisting the low EQ either. When you're picking sounds to use in your production and creating space in your mix for everything, you're making bad choices because your monitoring is poor and you don't have a full picture of what's happening in your low end.

I am afraid I wouldn't suggest using your production monitor for DJing... only because they aren't mean't to be used that way.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using monitors for recreational listening - or to DJ with. Good speakers are good speakers - period. And becoming familiar with your own monitoring equipment and environment helps train your ears. This is especially useful when you're mastering.

You can't polish a terd!

ANY mastering engineer, post engineer, or professional audio engineer on the planet will tell you that's EXACTLY what their job really is.

I speak with many of the top electronic producers and engineers on a daily basis and I am also on many closed boards where google will not find the discussions on this type of thing.

Everyone's free to have their own opinions, but I'll point out that if KRKs are good enough for people like Tal Hertzberg and John Dickson, they're probably good enough for most people.

**LanceBlaise** · 02-04-2010, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by nem0nic

The whole "you don't use subs with studio monitors" thing is completely false.

The whole point of a reference setup is to reproduce the music in an accurate way. If the musical content you're working on has a lot of content below what your speakers will accurately produce, then YOU NEED a sub to reproduce those frequencies. Most dance music has a lot of content a 5-7" speakers isn't going to be able to accurately reproduce. Your mixes are going to sound bass heavy on a decent system because your monitoring is lacking and you're likely compensating for that in your mix.

Your wrong bro. I think I am safe to say that this OP doesn't have a professional studio, hence a speaker with an 8.75" woofer is going to be best for him... something with a long throw. You are failing to understand that the effect low frequencies have on your room, which most often are adverse, can smash the mid and highs and make your system actually sound worse, not better. This is one of the first things they teach you in engineering. The monitors I suggested or what he will most likely purchase are meant for a smaller type room, hence a sub will just ruin what those monitors are putting out.

Originally Posted by nem0nic

ANY mastering engineer, post engineer, or professional audio engineer on the planet will tell you that's EXACTLY what their job really is.

Really? I would love to see them master some of the garbage I have heard. You must know the best in the world then...? I have used many people for mastering, including the guy who does Deadmau5's stuff, Robert Babicz's stuff, the guy who does the stuff for M_nus... oddly enough in my earlier stages of making music i can tell you i was making 5-10 corrections on my mixdowns before they were able to properly master the track. I am sorry, but for you to think they can just take a horrible track and make it sound great is just wrong and doesn't make any sense at all even.

Originally Posted by nem0nic

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using monitors for recreational listening - or to DJ with. Good speakers are good speakers - period. And becoming familiar with your own monitoring equipment and environment helps train your ears. This is especially useful when you're mastering.

I didn't say there was something wrong with using them, like they wouldn't sound good... or there would be an issue with the levels etc. My point was that he should have separate speakers for DJing and separate for DJing. Would you go into a club and hook up your computer to start producing? No, so don't dj on your production gear. Its a pretty simple rule, it just boils down to being serious about your gear and not beating on stuff when it shouldn't be beat on.

Originally Posted by nem0nic

Everyone's free to have their own opinions, but I'll point out that if KRKs are good enough for people like Tal Hertzberg and John Dickson, they're probably good enough for most people.

Again, I have almost the top of the line KRKs in one if my studios. And I do not like them. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. When I work on music with them, I have to do a lot of adjustments in my other studio to clean it up for the mixdown. They add a brightness and the low end is garbage. My other friend literally just sold his KRK VXT8s for that very reason and bought Dynaudio monitors. Now I am not telling him to go out and drop $2,000 on a set of monitors, but I am telling him that from personal experience and from many other people I know that have used them, there are issues with the falsification of the true sound.

Everyone has their own opinion about everything. I am just trying to give the man some input so he can make a decision based off of that. He asked for help, and thats what I lie to do. As I said earlier, I wish someone had helped me more when I started out. I wasted lots of money on stuff i didn't need and there was other stuff i should have bought.

**thorough** · 02-04-2010, 01:02 AM

ive had my roland ds-50's for over seven years now and they even survived basement flooding. As far as the quality i would like a little more bass response but at least they work well for a house party capable PA.

**LanceBlaise** · 02-04-2010, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by thorough

ive had my roland ds-50's for over seven years now and they even survived basement flooding. As far as the quality i would like a little more bass response but at least they work well for a house party capable PA.

Roland makes quality stuff. That's why it's still going strong. I own a pair of production headphones that I use for mixingdown that are Roland. I have had them for about 6 years and they are like new still to this day.

**summervest** · 02-04-2010, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct

They can sound beautiful.

But for DJing they are unnecessary. Computer speakers will work just as well and save a TON of money is all.

I somewhat disagree with this statement. I started practicing DJing on a mid-level computer speaker set, and thought I sounded good, until I played at a friend's house on a decent pair of monitors and realized my EQing was horrible and I really had no clue how I sounded due to the fact that the computer speakers couldn't reproduce 1/3 of the frequency spectrum.

Admittedly, you don't need a $2000 pair of Adam's or other high end monitor, but even a decent 5" monitor will GREATLY improve your practicing, as you'll get a much better idea of how your EQ technique sounds and also how your mixing sounds in general.

Now, every sound system is different and what sounds good on a pair of studio monitors may sound way different in a club, but I think you'll learn much better technique overall practicing on at least a decent set of monitors over a pair of PC speakers. I think this is especially the case when recording demos or recording in general, as you get a much better idea of what your recording actually sounds like, and can get a better idea of how it might sound on someone else's setup when they listen to your material.

Getting monitors greatly improved the quality of my demo's and my mixing in general, I highly recommend at least a low level set for any DJ.

**nem0nic** · 02-04-2010, 09:14 AM

Your wrong bro. I think I am safe to say that this OP doesn't have a professional studio, hence a speaker with an 8.75" woofer is going to be best for him... something with a long throw.

"Throw" refers to a speaker's projection. The speakers we're all talking about in this thread are meant to be short throw speakers (they're meant to be close to you in your listening environment). And that has NOTHING to do with the diameter of the speaker. Throw is primarily a function of the speaker's enclosure.

This is one of the first things they teach you in engineering.

Did you take a seminar at Full Sail or something? I majored in recording engineering, and then spent over 15 years working full time as a professional audio engineer. And now, I'm a product manager for The Stanton Group (which also owns KRK and Cerwin Vega).

The monitors I suggested or what he will most likely purchase are meant for a smaller type room, hence a sub will just ruin what those monitors are putting out.

If the sub isn't properly calibrated, that IS possible. But assuming that the user is too lazy to properly calibrate their monitors is stupid. That's like assuming that users will produce left or right heavy mixes because they're too stupid to balance their monitors. Or their mixes will be bass light because they corner loaded their monitors.

If you're producing content that contains low frequencies that your monitors don't accurately produce, you need to have a sub to fill that gap in response.

I would love to see them master some of the garbage I have heard. You must know the best in the world then...? I have used many people for mastering, including...

No, I don't have Bob Katz sitting next to me or anything (although he'd be laughing if he was). I've done the job long enough to have formed my own opinion after talking to 15 years worth of people who do the same thing. I haven't only worked in the isolation of the electronic music scene, so maybe that changes my opinion somewhat.

Its a pretty simple rule, it just boils down to being serious about your gear and not beating on stuff when it shouldn't be beat on.

This is giggle-worthy. Sorry, but the notion that everyone needs 2 sets of speakers for home DJing and production is silly. I've already stated why. To push that even further and tell the guy he needs to smoke his ears with some JBL Eons in the typical home environment is complete overkill.

...but I am telling him that from personal experience and from many other people I know that have used them, there are issues with the falsification of the true sound.

It's all jibba jabba until I see you with a Gold Line in your hands. I've SEEN the frequency response graphs and talked to the engineers that designed them.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

While that is true, sometimes opinions are ill informed. Your telling the OP to buy Behringer Truths, which will sound great for 6 months and then will fail. That's throwing money away in the long run. There are plenty of good mid-range brands out there that you'll get your money out of. And then you tell the OP that he needs a second pair of speakers to DJ on. And the cherry on top is recommending the OP skips the sub when it's highly likely that he'll need one if he wants accurate monitoring. I'll go to Bob Katz again and say that if he uses them, they're probably worth using.

Getting monitors greatly improved the quality of my demo's and my mixing in general, I highly recommend at least a low level set for any DJ.

^This^