Stanton SCS3 vs VCI-100 vs VMS4

[Bassline Brine]

I've tried talking to friends in the business, and on a couple other forums, but they don't fully seem to understand what I'm talking about with a fully digital MIDI setup. A lot of them are just recommending an X1 and "go get real vinyl" and that's not what I am personally looking for at the moment.

I'm planning on getting one of these three systems; more likely than not. The Stanton SCS3 System, the VCI-100SE, or the American Audio VMS4. My price point for the controller itself is 500-600 dollars, adding software and audio interface after the fact.

I've pretty much settled down with using Traktor. I've some experience with SSL, but as with SSL I wouldn't be able to use the jog wheels, I'm going to have to pass on that for now.

I've been lurking on these forums for a bit, and only recently posted a couple little things. And these are the questions that are burning in my mind.

My direction is to bring a fully digital setup to a wedding/dance, house party, or potentially into a club in the far future. My immediate goal is to get my own equipment so I can spend more time beat matching and really getting into the thick of mixing at the correct moments. I primarily want to spin DnB/House/Dubstep, but also plan on making a push at some top 40 stuff. I want something mobile, and so a MIDI controller seems like a perfect solution.

So what I'm looking for is feedback from folks who have tried these systems out. I know the VMS4 isn't released yet, but the 4 channel built in mixer along with the other features has really got my eyes going.

So here's my pro's and con's list so far:

Stanton SCS3 System

Pro's:
-It's really innovative.
-It's modular in design, so I could use it as a stand alone controller if I ever decide to go to a different setup.
-Touchpads lead to a lot of very interesting and unique combinations.
-Allows for an external Audio Interface
-Extremely mobile
-Does almost everything any other controller can, but in it's own unique way.

Con's:
-Touchpads aren't like anything else in the DJ'ing "world" and I feel I'd be lost (of a sorts) if I was used to the SCS3 system and then put in front of any other setup.
-Only a 2 channel mixer
-Again, the real big thing for me, while this was my first "choice" until I've had more time and more research, and talking with friends, is that this just really is totally it's own thing. While great and all, it really seems to make you a "one setup" kind of DJ.

VCI-100SE:

Pro's:
-Solid well tested setup.
-Has a normal style mixer and jog wheels
-A lot of following from DJTT in particular about updates
-Honestly just seems like a solid device that has a lot of capabilities in a light weight package that does not need an additional AC adapter (if I am not mistaken)
-Intelligent design (I really like the button layout)
-Would be able to choose my own audio interface
-I really like what I've seen with it as far as setting up samples/looping and cueing.
-Seems to follow a "K.I.S.S." policy in comparison to the other options in this price range.

Con's:
-Very hard to really "work" the 4 deck capabilities of Traktor. (holding/pressing shift just doesn't sound like my cup of tea)
-Non-modular design meaning that if I wanted to upgrade a part of it, I'd need to upgrade the whole setup.
-Only a 2 channel mixer.


American Audio VMS4:

Pro's:
-4 channel mixer.
-Pricepoint at $499 including an audio interface
-The ability to use it as a hardware mixer (if I wanted to add on CDJ's or TT's)
-Innofader capabilities
-Strong 4 deck controls
-A true "all in one" solution
-Seems to be a lot of "bang for your buck"
-Touchpad "faders" built in as well (re-mappable)
-Mousepad built into the unit


Con's:
-So new that it's not even out yet, so hasn't been tested for reliability.
-A bit heavier that the other options, but it is an all in one solution
-All in one solution, so I wouldn't be able to directly choose my audio interface
-Again, I really worry about the long term reliability (an in turn construction quality) of this controller
-Only 3 "larger" buttons at the bottom
-The layout seems a bit "busy" (but not a totally bad thing)
-I'm a bit afraid of it falling in the "too good to be true" category.


Honestly? I'm leaning toward waiting for the VMS4 to come out, while also really taking a hard look at the VCI-100SE. I'd also probably wait to get the VCI-100SE until the next firmware update and the next .tsi (so the overlay would match) The Stanton System seems interesting to me, but I just don't like the idea that it's concepts aren't easily transferable to a more common setup.

I'd much prefer to get my own audio interface (looking at the NI line, possibly an Audio 2 DJ to start and then an Audio 8 DJ down the line if I choose to expand). The 4 channel mixer is also a really big selling point of the VMS4 over the other options. The VCI-100SE does seem to have the most intuitive button layout however, and that's also something to consider.

I've been playing these thoughts back and forth through my head for the last week or so, and just hoping you guys can give me some feedback in one direction or another. Above all else, I may end up purchasing a Stanton 3d just for the novelty in the future as well if I don't go with the full setup. I know there are some more expensive setups available out there, but the 500-600 dollar price point for a controller is really where I have set myself.

So what are other folks opinions/thoughts between these controllers? I know many of you have experience with the VCI-100SE and the Stanton System, and probably have some thoughts on the VMS4.

Thank you in advance for reading my wall of text, and really looking forward to your responses!

(edit: I did read the sticky about where to post. If this needs to be moved to the general forums, that's fine. I just thought I would be opening up more of a discussion on the differences of these controllers as opposed to a "zomg I wantz to buy waht?" thread)

[Abyrne7]

Nice choices. I personally would go with the VCI 100 SE or VMS4. But without a sufficient DJ Tech Tools mapping the VMS4 would not be as sufficient as the VCI 100 SE, 4 decks or not (just my opinion). If I were you I would buy the VCI 100 SE right now. Play with it and be satisfied for the time being. Then down the road if DJTT plans on making a cool mapping with overlays and such for the VMS4 I would sell the VCI 100 SE and buy the VMS4.

But who knows there could be another even better 4 deck controller in the works as we speak. Or maybe if you are a wiz at midi mapping you could buy the VMS4 and make a cool making yourself.

But as of now I wouldnt be too surprised if DJTT ended up making a mapping for the VMS4. I think the touch sensor strips along with the jogs and the mouse pad that could probably act as a X/Y pad (correct me if Im wrong) would end up for some crazy effect combos. Ofcourse this is all assumptions on my part sence the quality of the controller is still yet to be really determined.

[Drimachus]

I don't understand this statement;

""it really seems to make you a "one setup" kind of DJ.""

in reference to the SCS 3, that's completely off-base.

I can move the mixer to the side, put the two decks next to each other, put all three units on one side of a traditional mixer, etc. i can add controllers. i can put the 3m on top of my regular mixer. I can use 1, 2, or all 3 controllers. I could go on all day here.

that statement applies more to the other controllers.

[mpetersen3]

i think he means that he won't be adapted to using knobs/traditional mixer orientation, however personally I disagree (although I use a vci) I am comfortable using stuff I haven't used before as long as I have about 2 minutes prior use/explanation of it. Knowing the principles of djing are more fundamental than the hardware, since hardware is pretty easy to learn. Maybe the only hardware that you would need to worry about would be something special like the scs system as they have a lot of special functions, but you will likely never need to use one on the fly where it counted (unless it's yours).

[charo]

^i believe what he was trying to say (he mentions it later on) is that you would be developing a skillset on the scs3 system that wouldn't translate well to when you used other setups. i think that's what the one setup dj is meant is say.
edit: mpeterson3 beat me.
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It's not on your list but if you saved a little more & used the soundcard money you are getting close to the vci-300 price range and for the type of music and mixing you are describing it sounds perfect.

if you're a beginner IMO stick with basic 2-mixing until you master it, then branch out.

neither the dascratch nor the vci-100 are really great beatmatching devices with their standard 128 midi resolution on the pitch faders.

you have alot of options in that price range....good luck

[DJ Van Draken]

It's obvious that you've done your research, and I think you have a fairly accurate grasp on the three units. I would be in the same situation you are right now, had I not bought the Stanton SCS 3 a couple months ago (when comparing it to VCI-100).

My problem with the VMS4 is the weight, more functions than I want or need that just clutter the space, and the jog wheels are not touch sensitive.

My problem with the VCI-100 SE is the hard buttons (aside from the ones arcade buttons replace) and all the shifting. I feel like I would lose track of everything. Also all the mechanical knobs means possible failure. I'm not coming down on this controller at all; it's just that nothing is ever perfect. Overall, this is my second favorite midi controller without a doubt!

I own the Stanton SCS 3m and 2x 3d's. My problem with Stanton SCS 3 is that it is very easy to accidently change a setting if you don't pay close attention. The touchpads are VERY sensitive, which is great for not wearing out your fingers but bad if you accidently touch something. After some use, you get COMPLETELY COMFORTABLE with this controller. Your brain will rewire itself fairly quickly from one DJ hardware to the next, so I wouldn't worry about this. I can go between a normal jog wheel and crossfader to the stanton without problems. I also don't like Stanton's tech support via email and forums... it's hit and miss with getting a response from them. They are very helpful when they respond, but I think it's just a small company overall. Fortunately there's not very much to go wrong with the system. Also, the magnets could be stronger. The units still want to separatewhen moving them around together. You have to push them together on the sides to move them around as a whole unit.

What I love about Stanton SCS 3: the feel of the jog wheels feels more like vinyl than traditional jog wheels... but they don't move. The lights on the system are definitely a lot of fun and make you feel like you're doing something other than turning plastic knobs lol. It feels less like a toy than most of the other midi controllers, even though it is made out of plastic... it's definitely got a flashy professional look to it. You can break this system down and use 1 or 2 controllers instead of 3, if you ever decide to upgrade your system. It is a little shorter than most midi controllers, so you can keep your computer closer to you.. or you can fit more things (like pad controls) between you and the computer. Stanton SCS 3 DOES support 4 decks... you just hit one 'shift mode' to change between deck A and C.. and there's another button to shift between B & D. You can switch decks independantly on the mixer from the turntables'
I like how it has 1-to-1 feedback with Traktor. You can let Traktor auto-set gain and auto-reset mixer controls with each new track... and You don't have to look at Traktor to see where your gain is set because the SCS3 will display lights showing what it's set at.

The Stanton SCS 3 is automatically preset to work with Traktor LE, Traktor Duo, and Traktor Pro. The 3d 'turntable' has 6 'shift modes' to change button and jog wheel operation. The nice part about this is you have plenty of buttons to do auto loops, manual loops, loop adjustments, 5 to 9 cue points per deck, scratching, track scrolling and loading, effects and effects control, EQ controls, pitch and gain resets, pitch bending and nudging. It's quite ridiculous what you can do with a single DaScratch, but you may not like having to hit so many different 'shift modes'. Each mode button can double as 3 different modes.. so you could theoretically have 18 different modes per deck if you really wanted to, lol.

The mixer is neat but nothing spectacular. I'd say the 'DaScratch' is the most impressive unit. They all work great together though. Forgive me for this very unorganized post, but I hope it helps. The Stanton and VCI are both great, and the VSM4 looks pretty good. I hope this helps.

[Hippie]

How about a pair of 3ds, a ddm4000 and a soundcard (or a 4 channel mixer with a soundcard in)? just to confoose the issue

Altho there's 6 modes on the 3ds some of them double up (per deck) like vinyl mode2 (with fine pitch mapped to the inner area) so as Van Draken says there's a possibility of 18 modes lolol, and the pitch faders are set to relative mode (with pitch bend buttons at eaither end of the strip too) in the latest mappings btw so that 128bit issue isn't anything to worry about imo.
I don't think you get LE tho if you don't get the full SCS 3 pack If u were thinking of going the cheap upgrade route to Pro.

[V-Hoff]

I'm re-posting this from other thread, but I think it can apply here too...
Your wall of text is much appreciated, all that you wrote is useful to this topic.

Keeping the discussion full-midi based, the AA-VMS4 is indeed the best solution sofar to control 4 decks properly, plus it have a touch pad that can be used like a X/Y pad for FX like an kaoss pad.
The cons about VMS is that it have unecessary built-in audio interface, it expenses the controller and make it bigger and heavy. C'mon people, we all know how these built in audio interfaces turn out on the end, really bad sounds with big audio latency, the worst nightmare to a DJ.

My dream setup with nowdays hardware to control 4 decks would be:

Macbook with firewire
+ Presonus Firestudio Mobile
+ Traktor with 4 Decks + 4 FXs
+ one American Audio VMS4 - for mixing, browsing tracks, loop control, 4xFX activation
+ one midifighter or any other pad 4x4 (with PS joystick if available) - for cuepoint juggling
+ one Stanton scs.3d - for many pre-set touchable super-effects on FX 3 and 4
+ one Stanton scs.3m - for set and control FX+Parameters (Chained and Advanced) to create combinations on-the-fly on FX 1 and 2

The Stanton scs.3m would work only for home pruposes, this way you can test a lot of different combination of FX and Paramaters.

The thing that attract me most about the stantons is the hability of change 10 variables of the same workflow at the same time with your 10 hand fingers . You cant do that with knobs, only some poeple has the hability to change two or more knobs at the same time with only one hand lol

Apart from that, I would design a controller by myself if I had the time and money to do so... it would have all the features that the above setup has, but with a compact controller, without bluit-in audio-interface and without jog wheels (yes, i dont like them )

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The main opinion in this long post is in bold.
The SCS 3 are a really unique piece of hardware. And to use shift with the touch interface should be MUCH MUCH MUCH better than use shift with knobs and pushable buttons, let me explain why:
For exemple, when you set a Hi EQ at 70% on a normal knob at Deck A and you hit shift to change your Deck A to C, the knob will be at a different position then your software. With the SCS 3 this will not happen, knobs are all touchable stripes and there is no default position, can you see why? Because the interface is almost fully DIGITAL, the LED feedback can change dinamically as you hit shift.
You can't be full DIGITAL and COMPACT with FISICAL hardware (normal knobs and faders) and with static FEEDBACK of your software. Do you know what I mean? If you decks can "virtually" change from Deck A to Deck C your hardware has to dinamically change the feedback.

Thats why I think its way way better to mix using shift at the Stanton System then would be with VCI or others...

This is only my 2 cents, as you can see my hardware above, I never played on a SCS 3 System or VCI-100. And i'm pretty much agreeing with Van Draken here, a real SCS3 user...

[nem0nic]

Just a correction...
The SCS.3m is a 4 channel mixer, NOT a 2 channel mixer as stated previously.

[sj03w4t]

Yeah it's 4 channels because it also has a button to switch between deck A/B and C/D.
But unlike traditional four channel mixers you can't adjust all four decks at once.. (if you'd have enough hands anyway..)

Also, the scs3m allows for a cheaper audio interface such as the audio2dj instead of having to go for external mixing and needing more outputs.