Are post fader fx possible in Traktor

[escapemcp]

as suspected then... the biggest pain being that there's no easy way to reorder stuff in the controller manager, without deleting and re/adding. unless you can just change some params about like u did there.

Yeah, is going to mean that mapping stuff just got even more finicky (what with the small screen and all). Seeing that the tsi files are nothing more than a description of midi mappings, I'd wish NI would produce a program that edits them (so they wouldn't even have to change the traktor settings screen)... bring back the xml files of Traktor Pro early versions - god, things were simple back then!

BTW: Trying your midimasher app... I can't program for toffee, but I work in IT (well say I can't program, but my mappings are crazy). Looks at first glance though, as if I can deal with what's happening. I may well message you more as I fiddle with it. One thing though... google translate is kicking in and trying to translate from Albanian (see pic!) - looks English enough to me!

Thanks for your work on mm btw.

[zestoi]

BTW: Trying your midimasher app... I can't program for toffee, but I work in IT (well say I can't program, but my mappings are crazy). Looks at first glance though, as if I can deal with what's happening. I may well message you more as I fiddle with it.

cool feel free to ping me any questions or even better post them in the "Intermediary midi mapping" thread that is in my sig.

i only just started writing function documentation the other day, i'll be adding more over the week hopefully.

One thing though... google translate is kicking in and trying to translate from Albanian (see pic!) - looks English enough to me!

Thanks for your work on mm btw.

yep, i noticed that earlier... pretty odd. just added a meta tag to set the language and it still thinks it's in albanian lol. i just let chrome translate it to english but it didn't change anything - so not sure what's triggering it. none of my servers are in albania anyway

[DJ MiCL]

Just played around with the hotcue thing that I mentioned before. I set up a mapping to hotcue 3 (first) then to hotcue 4 (both from same button)... it ALWAYS went to HC4. I then swapped the commands (changed 'Set To Value' from 3 to 4 and 4 to 3), thus reversing commands. It then always went to hotcue 3. So if traktor has 2 competing commands, it seems to take the most recent one. Got to recheck my mappings now and hopefully see if i can fix my change deck flavor/change deck size thing...

Hey there. To be accurate, your example might not be demonstrative of how Traktor handles "competing commands" at all. (I said might) It could simply be that it first jumped to HC3, and instantly jumped to HC4 -- "exactly as you programmed it". Granted, it could be the case that it's discarding the first command and just doing the latter, but even so in this case Traktor "is deciding correctly" so bringing it up sort of weakens the point we are trying to make here. No offense.

The only strong evidence (I am not convinced it's hard proof yet) that Traktor is somehow fumbling with multiple commands is the double beatjump combo example.

Why am I not not convinced? Hear me out.

So far, we have seen some apparent consistency in Traktor to:

1)handle "older maps first" and work its way to "the newest map".

2)Some times it skips "older maps" and completes the "newest map"(the double beatjump example)

If this is consistently what's going on, it totally makes sense that if you map:

A) Single FX select - delay
B) Effect panel mode single

in this order, the first press will ignore A (because it can"t do it, it's in group mode) and do B. Once it's in Single mode, a second press will activate (A) and (B) -- just (B) won't matter because it's already in Single mode.

Well okay, so you decide to re-map it the other order.

A) Effect panel mode single
B) Single FX select - delay

Now, our expectation is that Traktor will do (A) and then (B) ... they seem doable as long as they are done in this order -- but no! Traktor changes the panel mode, and stops there.

Is this an unexpected bug? I think not.

My current assumption is that Traktor, to the best of it's ability, tries to handle everything instantaneously.

In which case it turns out "the order is not important after all".:eek: (just an assumption)

You see, it's trying to do everything at once - so bad, that it checks up the panel mode before it changes to Single, and says, oh well, no can do...

This realization sort of shocked me, because seen in this light, even the "double beatjump" might be a result of just working as it should.

The assumption was that "beatjump" simply jumps however many beats it was told in whichever direction it was told. Maybe that's not how it works. Maybe it "refers to the current playhead location" and move the playhead to the new playhead location that you specified by XXX in the command "beatjump XXX". These two work similarly but are of different nature. The former can be added (a 4 beat forward jump + a 2 beat forward jump) but the latter can't. They are rather conflicting messages (one telling it to go to "4 beats forward from here" and the other "two beats forward from here") -- in which case, it literally can't do both, so it does the last in the line of commands.

The 3ms delay might be the space needed in Traktor to think of the two events as consecutive ones, not instantaneous ones... which ironically is what the string theory dude has been saying all along:eek: Man, I feel stupid now trying to prove something else and logically circling back to the start point...

What sucks for all of us but gives me hope that I am still onto something is that some actions seem to matter what order they occur in (even though they should not work in my "Traktor aims at instantaneousness theory"). Namely, set/store hotcue and beatjump. (I'm going to have to make sure of this after I post this once... it's getting way too long.....)

[zestoi]

The 3ms delay might be the space needed in Traktor to think of the two events as consecutive ones, not instantaneous ones... which ironically is what the string theory dude has been saying all along:eek: Man, I feel stupid now trying to prove something else and logically circling back to the start point...

to be fair i was saying that back in september, a long time before that blog article was written, when i first implemented my slicer in midimasher i just used a 10ms delay tho, didn't realise it could be as low as 3ms. the blog article also said 2ms i think? which i don't find 100% reliable.

A) Effect panel mode single
B) Single FX select - delay

also when i posted earlier about traktor changing panel mode but not setting the effect i did have a delay in between them. i think i even tried a 10ms delay but the fx select was still ignored, until i pressed the button again and it worked ok.

probably just down to traktor needing a certain amount of time to change the panel mode, since it's more work than most other commands i guess - i'm sure if i put in a really big delay it would work ofc.

the other thing i'd like to find out is just how/why/where traktor cares about 'off' messages and how they affect things. i've seen this related to a few things. where if u send say a midi velocity of 127 to do *something* but don't then send a zero velocity (which would normally be sent out when u released a button) and then send the same 127 out again it gets ignored, unless u wait long enough. i first saw this using the PC mode on my lpd8, just translating those PC messages into CC's. traktor wasn't always happy without the 0 velocity afterwards.

i'm sure NI won't ever spell out the intended behaviour of traktor down to these levels sadly anyway...

[DJ MiCL]

What sucks for all of us but gives me hope that I am still onto something is that some actions seem to matter what order they occur in (even though they should not work in my "Traktor aims at instantaneousness theory"). Namely, set/store hotcue and beatjump. (I'm going to have to make sure of this after I post this once... it's getting way too long.....)

Holy... I don't understand what I mistook for the behavior I explained above, I think I have moved yet another step closer to proving that the order isn't the issue unless the two actions contradict each other -- Hotcue + BeatJump and BeatJump + Hotcue result in the same... first goes to hotcue and then Jumps whatever beats specified.

I need to sort this out. All I ask for now is a consistent theory.

[DJ MiCL]

the other thing i'd like to find out is just how/why/where traktor cares about 'off' messages and how they affect things. i've seen this related to a few things. where if u send say a midi velocity of 127 to do *something* but don't then send a zero velocity (which would normally be sent out when u released a button) and then send the same 127 out again it gets ignored, unless u wait long enough. i first saw this using the PC mode on my lpd8, just translating those PC messages into CC's. traktor wasn't always happy without the 0 velocity afterwards.

I think that's pretty normal? Just like a CC that stays at a certain value does nothing - e.g., not moving the fader. There, it's probably not a "0" that's required but a change in velocity to trigger it again. My guess would be 126 will do just as well.

[DJ MiCL]

I didn't read the whole thread so I am not sure this answer has been given yet. When you use effects and you want to keep the effect with out the track in the mix the only way possible is to stop the track or pause it. I have tried numerous ways around this since I use to use a send/return with my old mixers and liked to fade the track out while having a echo from the efx500 slowly fade out over the next track.

Sorry. I kind of threw the thread off topic.

Here's the page with the info. Yes there is a way to get post fader effects.

http://www.djtechtools.com/forum/sho...t=39118&page=4

Check it out!

[DJ MiCL]

Yeah.. have been trying to get "Change Deck Flavor=Track Deck" & "Deck Size=Advanced" to work with one button press, but without success. If I come out of the sample decks the decks default to compact size (think it's compact - the one between micro and normal size). Have to then press button again to get the decks to switch to advanced size

Hey y'all, I got this to work on one button.

I got to beatjump +2 and beat jump + 4 and get +6 as a result on one button too.

I can't believe I missed this. I knew there was something funky going on. I could have sworn that my post fader FX mode button was a "single push" button, no matter what the previous state was, but I somehow couldn't get it to work when I tried to re-map it. I'm betting that you can figure out how I did it so am not writing it here It's so cool when you discover this... don't want to spoil it for you.

I started a new thread over here: http://www.djtechtools.com/forum/sho...070#post388070

Please join me and let's get to the bottom of this!!

[escapemcp]

Hey y'all, I got this to work on one button.

I got to beatjump +2 and beat jump + 4 and get +6 as a result on one button too.

I can't believe I missed this. I knew there was something funky going on. I could have sworn that my post fader FX mode button was a "single push" button, no matter what the previous state was, but I somehow couldn't get it to work when I tried to re-map it. I'm betting that you can figure out how I did it so am not writing it here It's so cool when you discover this... don't want to spoil it for you.

PLEASE spoil it for me.. have just been messing around in a blank mapping (as my live one is too complex atm to start fiddling!).

Swapped about order... I can get the deck to maximise, but only a microsecond before changing to sample deck! Re-mapping/ordering results in nothing happening (as it is trying to change to advanced in sample mode). I am using modifiers to swap between track & sample deck (not using live deck). If I do just use "inc" without modifiers (so that it rotates from track>sample>live) then I can get it working. My head hurts now!

Ooh, Traktor MUST also always be running the modifier commands first.. otherwise commands that you have set up on a toggling modifier wouldn't run - if it ran the command before changing the modifier, then you'd get totally the wrong results. Just something else to consider!

Just going to use Deck Flavor on inc mode... that way as it passes through live input, it can use then to change to advanced. Means I free up a modifier AND get more functionality (in that I get Live deck!! )

[zestoi]

Ooh, Traktor MUST also always be running the modifier commands first.. otherwise commands that you have set up on a toggling modifier wouldn't run - if it ran the command before changing the modifier, then you'd get totally the wrong results. Just something else to consider!

definately makes sense, tho i had (before all of this discussion) assumed that even that wasn't important and that traktor somehow prioritised the current control events. what's worse is that there's no easy way to re-order in traktor ofc...

worth moving this discussion to the new thread probably - this "post fader fx" one has become quite derailed