Fx automation and sample sequencing inside of Traktor (not simple but possible)

[photojojo]

This stuff is mostly way over my head, but on jumping three beats could you jump 1 beat, 1 beat then 2 1/2 beats or is that not the same thing?

[zestoi]

This stuff is mostly way over my head, but on jumping three beats could you jump 1 beat, 1 beat then 2 1/2 beats or is that not the same thing?

u can jump 1 beat + delay + 2 beats to jump 3 beats. the real pain is needing that delay inbetween else traktor assumes you've made a mistake.

and if u try to just stack the jump1+jump2 to the same control within your tsi traktor uses the first one u mapped and ignores the 2nd. quite interesting that *sometimes* the order u add stuff to your tsi *does* matter

u can use an "inverted direct" control to map the jump+2 to the same pad as the jump+1, since then it only fires when u release, but that adds in more of a delay than the needed 2ms anyway

i also don't remember off hand what happens if u map "jump to active cue" and jump+2 to the same button but i think that bit works...

[Phi]

...

[Phi]

You really don't see a company being able to build plug-n-play automation into Traktor controllers as being REALLY useful in the controller industry?

[zestoi]

it's definitely the most interesting possible solution to the issue i've heard so far...

if you can cascade the counting from M1 thru to say M8 and if that gives u a fine enough timing and all counters are reset to zero at the start of a beat u could then just do something like:

jump to active cue: cond M1=0, M8=0
beatjump+1 : cond M1=0, M8=1
beatjump+2 : cond M1=0, M8=2

since the modifier conditions should mask any other logic that traktor is applying to the mapping

no issue with using up all modifiers ofc as u can just use a separate generic midi device for this mapping

this would also work for me... i'd just map extra midimasher events like jumptobeat_4_a, jumptobeat_3_a etc

[zestoi]

You really don't see a company being able to build plug-n-play automation into Traktor controllers as being REALLY useful in the controller industry?

ofc it'd be useful - it's still a shame u need a loopback midi port as once u go to the bother of doing that u can use something like bomes or midimasher to extend the possibilities several fold

would be very useful if with some set of cascading modifiers u could say "to automatically fire an event on offbeat of beat 3 use these as conditions: MX=A and MY=B"

if it all works then u could come up with a table of those conditions

be even better if u could apply more than 2 modifier conditions to a control as then u could use extra modifier conditions to enable/disable events

[Phi]

ofc it'd be useful - it's still a shame u need a loopback midi port as once u go to the bother of doing that u can use something like bomes or midimasher to extend the possibilities several fold

I'm not familiar with midimasher, or bomes directly but if they are not freeware, or you have to download it, or have to run in the background while you use the controller, we aren't discussing the same thing at all because what I'm describing is that a controller can come with it's own auto-installing Vmidi cable, so the end user experience is completely plug-n-play.

No downloads, not something you need to run in the background, not something the end user pays for, or even knows is there, complete plug-n-play automation built into Traktor controllers. that would be a vast difference than what we have now...

and it would be in a consistent file format to easily update existing feature sets as new automation scripts are written. we just need a developers tool for working with midi-loop-automation on the programming end.

ok, I'm off work so now I'll try to work on the beatslicer.

Thanks for the good input zestoi. It is much appreciated.

[zestoi]

I'm not familiar with midimasher, or bomes directly but if they are not freeware, or you have to download it, or have to run in the background while you use the controller, we aren't discussing the same thing at all because what I'm describing is that a controller can come with it's own auto-installing Vmidi cable, so the end user experience is completely plug-n-play.

something like midimasher could *be* the vmidi cable and also add extra stuff on top of just routing the midi. you have to run the vmidi cable driver just like the driver for the controller needs to be 'run' so its remantics really. if you need to run a vmidi driver then there's no reason it can't be more than just a direct router. imho the key thing here is it being 'simple' to install and able to be bundled with a controller as you said and hence auto installable. bomes isn't free but midimasher is my own project so is.

if you're on mac then you already have virtual midi port functionality builtin via the IAC driver. i presume you could just create one port (that could be created on the fly by some extra app/driver like midimasher does) and read+write to it in traktor. windows is more of a pain tho - you have to use extra vmidi software. i used to use loopMIDI when i had to run windows.

and it would be in a consistent file format to easily update existing feature sets as new automation scripts are written. we just need a developers tool for working with midi-loop-automation on the programming end.

not sure where you're coming from here... if only using traktor then the only file format is the tsi. ofc if the vmidi cable is more than a simple router then that can have it's own config file format so then this makes perfect sense.

if on mac, and you can do all the logic in the tsi, then you could use the same backdoor that xtrememapping uses for reading/writing tsi files. i'm not aware of any way of modifying tsi's outside of the traktor controller editor on windows. you used to be able to before they encrypted them (pre traktor pro)

Thanks for the good input zestoi. It is much appreciated.

cheers - i know we're coming from slightly different angles here but the end game i think is the same and i do really enjoy bouncing these ideas back and forth with u apologies if i'm coming across in any negative way at all - that's not my intention. this is all good stuff!

for me the whole traktor mapping method is a pain and limited compared to apps like vdj or mixxx - which is why i started my midimasher project. it also has all the same kind of functionality as midikatapult which lets u create virtual layers and coloured layouts on a controller like a launchpad and lets you do all your mapping within it's own config files using a big tsi file that it hooks into.

[Phi]

No you don't sound negative at all. Thank you. You have no idea how much it helps me to actually talk to someone who knows about these kinds of things.

I'm comming from the perspective of the User end of the Stanton scs.3 system, and just having to manually open "darouter" before using Traktor is a negative in user experience.

If you can make the user experience seamless, sure put all the extra stuff in there, but just remember that most people want more functionality with less "hands on" time. Another problem I had was that I needed to modify a darouter preset, and was instructed to buy BMT or get someone with it to author me a new preset, but I couldn't get a response on their forum, so I was stuck with needing a button at the bottom of my fader until I realized how to do the instant gratification with only modifiers on a fader. So yeah, consistent filetypes are a concern for the user.

[Phi]

Midimasher sounds pretty cool, I'll go give it a shot in a while...

I've always wanted to use mixx or anything like that, but as a turntablist my main concern has been on the timecode stickerdrift and whatnot. Do you know how they stack up against Traktor in the scratching/juggling department?

The idea of learning how to write scripts in one of these programs seems a little intimidating since I don't have any experience with programming.

I also really like TSPs FX too, but I think that routing audio through Ableton will eventually give me more flexibility.

Oh yeah! and I want to stay on TSP for the maschine integration that is somewhere on their timeline

I just want to see Traktor use all the raw power that it has built into the modified system.