Traktor Scratch Poor (a.k.a. Ghetto Timecode Control)

[Jack Bastard]

I had no idea that people valued reliability so poorly, especially if they are more than bedroom djs.

[Karlos Santos]

Yeah i agree with Jack. Id also say that most bedroom DJs are aspiring to get club/bar work (not all , but most) . What happens on the day that you get the call "yeah man weve got a warm up slot going tomorrow be here at 10pm". And you rock up with some piece of crap hardware and c******d software.
Do you risk a crash and looking like a complete amateur on your debut ? Shit can go wrong when its top class kit, at least when it does its not because you cut corners.
Just a thought.

[feralchimp]

Yeah i agree with Jack. Id also say that most bedroom DJs are aspiring to get club/bar work (not all , but most) . What happens on the day that you get the call "yeah man weve got a warm up slot going tomorrow be here at 10pm". And you rock up with some piece of crap hardware and c******d software.
Do you risk a crash and looking like a complete amateur on your debut ? Shit can go wrong when its top class kit, at least when it does its not because you cut corners.
Just a thought.

You guys raise a solid point there, but maybe the day I get that call is the day I push my whip over to Guitar Center and buy an Audio8.

Also, with no legal way to test TSP on unsupported hardware, we don't actually have reliability data...just NI's assertion that "we know the supported stuff works." I've gotta tell you, if I'm spinning a set and my Audio8 goes tits up for some reason, I'm going to care f-all about its "supported" status. I'm going to want to dig into my bag and use something else as a backup, even if the increased latency prevents me from using all the insane scratching skills I don't have.

[Karlos Santos]

Also, with no legal way to test TSP on unsupported hardware, .

Thats because its unsupported. Thats a bit of a none argument.

You can fully test Traktor and ALL its features with the Demo. Adding the DVS functionality makes no difference to its stability.
Traktor Pro is the exact same program as Traktor Scratch Pro. So if you buy TSP with the Audio 8 which' is 'proven' to be a great soundcard and you already know how to DJ with decks then theres no real need to test with unsupported hardware.

Your more likely to get badly tainted view of how Traktor functions testing with unsupported hardware anyway , thus making the test pointless.

You can always buy it from Guitar Center and return it within a certain amount of days cant you ?

[feralchimp]

Thats because its unsupported. Thats a bit of a none argument.

I work in a software market where "maintenance and support" is something users pay annually for, on top of their initial licensing costs. And one of the requirements for receiving support, even when you're paying for it, is to use our products in the environments where we actually claim support for them.

The flipside to that is that users are allowed to discontinue support. That generally only happens if a user stops using a product completely, but we don't tell them how to run their business either, and some users disco and continue using the product. In that case, they just can't open support tickets and expect help before they re-establish a support contract.

Given all that, I (personally) would be a more satisfied NI customer if TSP would be purely agnostic toward my choice of audio interface. And even if that resulted in slightly more hiccups for some users, I think that attitude would actually demonstrate *more* confidence (on NI's part) in the NI hardware interfaces. That is, if they really are better in a way that users will notice, that fact should bear itself out in the marketplace. People will hear "oh, I tried using TSP with my Conectiv or MOTU 828 mkI or whatever, and it just wasn't as reliable as when I tried in on my friend's pure-NI system." People starting hearing that, especially in a place like djtechtools, and NI's audio interfaces (and TSP) see a sales bump.

Your point about protecting the perceived stability of TSP (by force, if necessary) is totally valid though, and if put in NI's position (especially with good audio i/o hardware I was trying to sell) I would probably make the same business decision.

Maybe I'm just cranky because I think it'll be tough for me to sell my MOTU 828mkI these days.

Cheers-

[DvlsAdvct]

But really, you've found a way to do exactly what you're asking. A way around their model. It isn't as stable, it isn't as reliable, and it isn't supported. And if you were to go to my house and play on my NI exclusive rig then you would have a completely different experience. *shrug*

[Chilly]

I work in a software market where "maintenance and support" is something users pay annually for, on top of their initial licensing costs. And one of the requirements for receiving support, even when you're paying for it, is to use our products in the environments where we actually claim support for them.

The flipside to that is that users are allowed to discontinue support. That generally only happens if a user stops using a product completely, but we don't tell them how to run their business either, and some users disco and continue using the product. In that case, they just can't open support tickets and expect help before they re-establish a support contract.

Given all that, I (personally) would be a more satisfied NI customer if TSP would be purely agnostic toward my choice of audio interface. And even if that resulted in slightly more hiccups for some users, I think that attitude would actually demonstrate *more* confidence (on NI's part) in the NI hardware interfaces. That is, if they really are better in a way that users will notice, that fact should bear itself out in the marketplace. People will hear "oh, I tried using TSP with my Conectiv or MOTU 828 mkI or whatever, and it just wasn't as reliable as when I tried in on my friend's pure-NI system." People starting hearing that, especially in a place like djtechtools, and NI's audio interfaces (and TSP) see a sales bump.

Your point about protecting the perceived stability of TSP (by force, if necessary) is totally valid though, and if put in NI's position (especially with good audio i/o hardware I was trying to sell) I would probably make the same business decision.

Maybe I'm just cranky because I think it'll be tough for me to sell my MOTU 828mkI these days.

Cheers-

Please see:
Serato
Torq
Pro Tools
BlackBerry + BES + BlackBerry Messenger
Xbox 360 or PS 3

These systems require you use approved hardware with their software.

I don't find your argument to be valid.

If you didn't know what you were getting into before purchasing the software, that's on you. I don't know why you should be a more satisfied customer at that point.

Should I tell Microsoft I'd be a more satisfied customer if I could play PS3 games on their system? Nope. I know that by purchasing an Xbox 360 what I have to do to operate it in a supported fashion.

You want an agnostic audio interface? Use a non-time code DVS system.

[Karlos Santos]

I

Maybe I'm just cranky because I think it'll be tough for me to sell my MOTU 828mkI these days. -

Dude, dont sell it. Have 2 soundcards.
I have. Ive got my Firebox that i use exclusively with my Controller Setup and my Audio 8 that i use for DVS.

[feralchimp]

Please see:
Serato
Torq
Pro Tools
BlackBerry + BES + BlackBerry Messenger
Xbox 360 or PS 3

These systems require you use approved hardware with their software.

Ms. Pinky is a notable counterexample.

I don't mean to beat up on NI here, the fact that Torq is tied to Conectiv is equally lame. I don't really know anything about Serato's business, but if they require a Serato-branded interface the same criticisms apply. If ProTools requires specific audio i/o's, that's stupid too. A hardware dongle specifically used to prevent piracy is a whole other matter.

PS3 software has a strict dependency on PS3 hardware because the hardware architecture is wacky. Are you aware of anyone without a BlackBerry who has any interest in running BES?

Xbox360 is the closest case to NI, because they're fixing a spec for the sake of reliability. But the *whole point* of XBox360 is to standardize the hardware and operating system (and its implications for network play); a PC game software market already exists.

The problem of getting timecode into a computer is a generic problem, with a wide variety of generic solutions available. And more than anything, I'm saying "I'm sure the internal mixer in TSP is way better than the one in Torq; I don't care so much about scratch-friendly latency; I wish they were cooler with my use case."

[feralchimp]

Dude, dont sell it. Have 2 soundcards.
I have. Ive got my Firebox that i use exclusively with my Controller Setup and my Audio 8 that i use for DVS.

I'm married now, so the audio hardware expenditures need to be more, uh, *strategic* than they once were.