• http://www.facebook.com/rob.henderson.9440 Rob Henderson

    one year later and nothing has changed.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jim-Barnes/1328278220 Jim Barnes

    Interestingly in the NI Control editor the sixteen buttons have midi channels and controllers assigned to them. It must be something in the software drivers for the F1 that intercepts the button press and passes it to a dll that’s installed under traktor to select a loop in a cell row of the remix decks as emulating the midi channel and midi controller in any other controller doesnt do anything even though the midi light in traktor comes on when i use the emulated button.

  • harry haryono

    c’mon man…dont limit your brain with this remix decks… we can use Ableton live more better… beside… remix is imitating ableton…

  • Dancenoise

    All wants hack it. WHo can hack it?

  • Science

    @Beedux What is all this spoiled techno brattery and I almost lolled when you tried to compare Mixxx to Traktor – Look lets sum this up, Certain types of DJ will use the full functionality of the new remix decks, some not (like me, I play deep house and I really don’t need them) – These are the people who have bought an F1, are 100% happy and just getting on with what they do best… It’s hilarious that with all the whining coming from this forum that not one person who owns an F1 has any complaints.. guess why, because it’s an amazing creative tool….

    ” the nature of the dj world and the streets and the underground in general requires that hardware can be repurposed and that software can be controlled by whatever you plug into it. ”

    What the hell are you talking about, you are implying “rules” of the underground – what? are these written down like the 10 commandments or some s**t.
    Grow up.
    Save up.
    and work hard for the tools you “need” – you’ve obviously never had to scrape every penny you have together to buy pair of SL1210s because those bastards at Panasonic had a monopoly on the world of DJing for 25 years lol

  • Lov3dnb

    You controllerists are getting played. You need to go back to matching your own beats, using an actual mixer, and quit spending money on all this new junk. If it could be implemented by every user it might be something, and honestly I think tractor is an amazing piece of software. But them doing this, steering you and only one direction, limiting features, not what I want to see. NI makes some cool things, and the remix decks I actually was considering, because of all that potential if you read the features. But if they’re going to make me have some tacky controller and I cant just use something I already have, I’m certainly not going to upgrade. I’m still rocking 1.27 and it does me just fine.

  • Beedux

    everything they said about not being able to implement the same level of integration with third party controllers is bullshit, as everyone in the djtt community should know. i respect that hid is a standard (although its debatable whether or not that standard is appropriate for music) and i respect that ni is tryna have the tightest integration of the f1 with traktor as possible. however, i do not respect this marketing ploy, i do not respect monopolies, and i do not appreciate ni using its customer base for research and development. if we didnt want to use our own controllers we wouldve used serato. honestly, mixxx has almost the same functionality as traktor without having spent nearly as much money and its all open, all thrid party controllers, and can be edited to suit your musical goals. y do i even care about traktor then? because programs with corporate money behind them are (or should be) more stable, i want to spend my time mixing not coding, and untill recently ni hasnt done anything so offensive or functionally impairing as making mappings more difficult than they already are. im sincerely hope that ni’s future business model does not rely on third party programing like xtreme mapping or tedious hacks and workarounds to make their shit usable. already if you admit defeat and purchase the f1, you pay for licensing again!!! how can it not be percieved as a step towards monopoly when theyre already double dipping NOW. and the f1 wasnt the first, the s2 and s4 before it also moved functionality into the controller. the nature of the dj world and the streets and the underground in general requires that hardware can be repurposed and that software can be controlled by whatever you plug into it. dont forsake midi for hid, if anything include both standards. take the code out of the controller and stop developing hardware that doesnt bring anything new to the table. the f1 pads arent even velocity sensitive. that money coulda have gone to fixing all the mapping problems traktor has. rant finished, sorry

    • Beedux

       last thing, stanford created a robotic car that won a race across the desert with no driver. they had one goal and one philosophy, software. software is where all the power lies. the most heavily modified vehicles barely qualified and didnt even finish the race. if you think thats irrelevant then go ahead and waste your money on an f1.

  • Jordanreif1

    in traktor 2 if you mapped your controller to the sample decks and exported the mapping into 2.5, you will be able to use the sample decks. That’s only the top one though. As you see it says deck play – remix deck (in the controller manager). You can duplicate it and map the next slot to another button. Hope I helped.

  • Peter Lewis

    I have had a lot of emails of how to access all the Sample slots (64). It is easier for me to explain here.

    Firstly Download the Bome’s Midi translator package, Send in a postcard to get it for free or Pay the $80 

    Then all you need to do is map the Midi messages from your controller to 
    1. Mouse position
    2. Mouse Click

    I use the APC 40 and I have managed to get all the functions done for 2 remix decks

    Using the first Column of buttons on the left to do the Page Changes and using Bome to send the colors of the selected page to the Controller.

    I have also mapped 16 buttons in different colors that flash when that Sample is playing.

    Whatever you can do with the mouse you can do with MIDI using this method. I also used direct midi from Traktor for all of its built in Midi commands.

    This works perfectly and I am going to try it out live this weekend.

    I have been using this method for the past 3 days and have not yet found a problem, in fact I think it is better than the F1 as you do not need to use the Shift button on half of the commands.

    The only caution is that you must remember to use the same resolution that you used in programming it as you do when you play it live ie Full Screen or some other resolution or you can have multiple resolutions stored

    I used auto_clicker to determine the exact screen positions.

    I am busy writing a program that will do this without any Bome’s or any other package.

    I have not had any latency problems either. you can also store more than one command into each button on the controller. As far as I can see this is the best solution so far.EnjoyIf any of you want my Bome,s config file, please email me and I will send it to you.peter (at) djpeter dot co dot za

  • Peter Lewis

    If anyone is interested I have a solution to control all 16 levels per slot
    email me peter@djpeter:disqus .co.za

  • http://www.facebook.com/vincent.cox.12 Vincent Cox

    I have made a solution for this.
    You can use EVERY controller that you want. check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn5torYF3Xw

  • http://www.facebook.com/jacinto.almager Jacinto Almager Jr.

    i hope someone does sumthing quick. i was wanting to get a pair of midi fighters instead of the f1 because i like the layout and arcade style buttons more but guess thats now out of the question. smdh

  • DJ M1RFace

    Challenge Accepted! lol http://youtu.be/SuzDxwzv5Sg

  • DJ M1RFace

    I’ve found a way that works very well. http://youtu.be/SuzDxwzv5Sg

    • Marcreck

      AWESOME WORK! Can’t wait to see more. Big ups DJ M1rface. Really appreciate your work bro

  • DJ M1RFace

    Done http://youtu.be/SuzDxwzv5Sg

  • Max Flavour

    Dont know about hacking. I always went to the restroom during JAVA and C++ lessons. Think the F1s are awesome, perfectly integrated. Unfortunately I bought the wrong basic hardware, using the Pioneer DDJ-T1. If NI builts a hardware deck of this size and integrates 2x F1 into it as well as all the S4 has, I am the first one to buy ! LG

  • http://www.facebook.com/vincent.cox.12 Vincent Cox

    I KNOW A SOLUTION TO THIS:
    With visual basic i can make a program (running in background) that press on a certain position on the screen when a button of the controller/keyboard is pressed.
    For example: with a controller with pads, we press the 2nd pad, the mouse clicks on the button to play the 2nd sample in the slot.
    So then you got full functionnallity!
    Sounds lika a good Idea? Or not? :)
    Should i make it?
    send me a message on facebook if you think this is a good idea.

    haha, native instruments take that!

    greetz,
    vincent Cox

  • Jeffking14

    Ummm, Is it just me or when you’ve updated this you can’t scratch on the S4 anymore… like its fine for a second then just…. not right… what the ?

  • marcreck

    Ah i had in legacy mode in prefs – seems that i can switch down now but not back up. Bit clunky so prob another setting to find

  • marcreck

    Just got the 2.5 update and on the s4 in remix deck – holding shift and pressing a cue button doesnt appear to switch to the next sample row. It does delete the sample if you press it twice though like the sample decks? Unless im missing something?

  • Djayhooker

    This is why I gave up on N.I, they have made some great tools, Kontact and Massive being my fav.
    I have Maschine but the build quality is questionable and they run their business in a very arrogant way.
    I dj with Ableton bc I trust them, they have shown time and time again they put customers first, same with companies like Spectrasonics. Companies could learn a lot from those two as far as loyalty goes.

  • Calkutta

    its true,anyone who dj’s for money doesnt really use all ’64′ sample decks,and if they do they just use abelton…i love traktor for skratching and triggering cue points,but even though 64 cells is cool…it wont make you a better dj.
    the work around,borrow ‘live’ off a friend and install it and run both at the same time…whats the big deal?…we have been doing that for a while now.
    personally,this is a ‘board room’ type decision,and if NI wants to stay the ‘controllerist’ software of choice,this will change.
    art first?…money first?…art first?…money first?…in the end,more ‘artist’ equals more ‘money’….

  • PANPAN

    There is a way figure out the mapping for those remix function on the F1.  I believe the mapping tsi file will be like the S4 or S2 where in the Tarktor preference window you have “Controller Manager” which is all of your midi controllers mapping and then under that is a S4, S2 X1 controller manager. 
    The differnece between both “managers” is that in the “Controller Manager” you can see midi notes, what they are mapped to, modifiers, in n outs, etc.
    Where in the S4 or S2 manager tab, it only has pull down menu to pick from different S4 or S2 templates, but they DO NOT show midi notes, what they are mapped too, etc. 

    I can’t wait for this to come out so I can give it a shot to crack the mapping, I did it already for all the S2 and S4 templates made by NI, DJ Techtool and other third party companies.

    It has to be midi but the one thing I am trying to figure out is how the sample colors carrying midi info to tell the midi controller what color LED to be on for that sample.

    Either way can’t wait to get my hands on it.

    PANPAN

  • Chupsie

    Who cares about integration?
    Open standards, modularity and separation of software and hardware are the key future concepts here. Some companies (like Behringer) have got wind of it already. Others are deceiving themselves with the idea that DJs need ‘complete solutions’. I will build my own solution, thank you very much, just provide me with the quality parts.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

    I just don’t understand why Native Instruments didn’t incorporate the ability to use Maschine (natively) in Traktor. I get that the F1 has new colored buttons and up-faders (which Maschine doesn’t have), but one would figure that a company so full of bright people would have started integrating these two platforms when Serato and Ableton announced that they were working on “the Bridge.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1651530188 Joseph Chang

    hmm.. not totally digging the fact that the remix decks aren’t MIDI assignable.. I guess I’ll need to start learning more about Ableton and then just route it through traktor. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/justinwooartist Justin Woo

    Didn’t NI see the blowback coming over this? While there may be some under-the-hood reason for restricting us, it surely looks like nothing but a damn cash grab. Traktor used to be the most open platform, in contrast to Serato’s “walled garden”. We use Traktor for that reason. Why are you screwing us now, NI, after we’ve all shown you such loyalty?

  • Cookie Monster

    all i read here is F off, buy our hardware. 

  • http://soundcloud.com/xorchiptune xorchiptune

    Absolutely agree with psy/OPs. Why not routing any other sampling device to deck D? Yeah, the F1 obviously is the cleanest solution but I’ll just use my Roland SP404-sx sampler instead.

  • Kell Shinobe

    Sorry guys but Ni has hardware now, and it’s only logical to focus its efforts there. Remember this update is optional in terms of useing the remix decks, and if you like your setup, why the huff? I get the feeling most of you are satisfied with your choice of controlers, like i’m with mine it just so happens I have an s4 so it’s understandable from my point of view, for NI to spend the time making sure their hardware works best with its software. If I was NI I wouldn’t make it a focus to worry if the hardware, and software that I created as a package works with the gear people have purchased from the competiton just from a business point.

  • http://twitter.com/psyOPs_ psy/OPs

    Nice one NI!

    Rather than let us play with the remix decks in 2.5 to see if the F1 would add to our workflow, we’re now forced to buy a controller that does what a LOT of other solutions on the market already achieve.

    I think i’ll just route my Maschine audio into Traktor deck D, yes.
    That should suffice :)

  • xman

    I can assure you that there are people working their ass off to come up with a cool product like the F1 / Remix Decks. It’s dope and worth every cent. I still hope there will be more room for improvments in the future, instead of throwing in new features …

  • Buster

    This if F#cking bullsh*t! i’ve waited for the remix decks for ages! – In fake belief that i’d be able to custom midi map my midi fighters and other midi devices to it… NI has let me down :(

  • http://ccombe.tumblr.com/ Chris Combe

    thanks for the update guys.. some faith in NI has been restored.. 

  • Andrew

    Ok so just to clarify a few things here.

    I own Traktor Kontrol  S4 and Maschine. I am going to buy 1 or 2 F1′s.

    So where will I be screwed other than the midi mapping of Maschine.

    I plan to make my loops, clips etc in my DAW and transfer to Traktor.

    So please explain where I will be limited. Mouse contol to load a clip???? etc.

    I have never had a problem with my NI software or hardware. It works for me as intended.

    Or am I just stuck into the NI paradigm of doing things ( music making )

    Please enlighten me.

    Cheers

    • BrainStormer

      You won’t be limited, as long as you buy their products everything works fine.

  • Zac Kyoti

    F1? NHL? Remix Decks?  How about fixing Maschine in OSX to stop freezing in midi mode. People sad because they planned to use Maschine with TPro 2.5? Don’t be. It wouldn’t have worked for more than 15 minutes anyway.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ryan-McGinley/6831792 Ryan McGinley

    So unless I get an F1 theres basically no upgrade to use the remix decks practically… thanks NI

  • Audiomontana

    still looking back at everyone of my feature requests from five years ago.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/sososo93 Sofiane Gfx

    so bad going to SERATO NOW!!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/Gavintech Gavin Varitech

      Funny, because A.) Serato isn’t insanely locked down, B.) has remix decks, and C.)  they allow you to use them with any controller you want.

      Unfortunately for anyone switching to Serato for this (non-event) not one of those things are true.

  • http://www.facebook.com/stefano.maffullo Stefano M. Maffullo

    Great! Finally i can move to Ableton! Thanks N.I. :D

  • AENSLAED

    I was getting enthusiastic about Traktor 2.5 and now this happens. I just bought Traktor Scratch Pro 2 software and I already feel left behind by the company… I should have stayed with Traktor 1.2.7 and saved me some cash for the upgrade…

  • Cooldjtv

    this is horrible! tracktor is turning into serato! BOOO!

  • BrainStormer

    I’m now totally committed not to go back with NI ever. First, I bought a NS7 but never liked Serato so I was waiting a pro map that never came out, so I bought VDJ7.

    When the S4 came out I was like WOW! So I sold my NS7, didn’t get much money in return, but what the heck, finally I would be able to play Traktor with a controller, soon afterwards TP2 came out but I had to pay for an upgrade, so I paid. Soon afterwards the price for an upgrade to TP2 fell but I could not get refunded. I was in a sound proof basement and I could pump the noise… Due to financial reason I had to move out to a regular apartment with no sound proof, so I had to switch my S4 directly to the computer, but I could never get my headphones to pre-cue my music with TP2 (no internal mixer) so I switched back to VDJ7, but guess what no map for VDJ7 :(.

    I now use VDJ7 and I’m thinking of selling my S4. I know there will never be a map for VDJ7, like the never was a map for NS7 for Traktor.

    All this tight hardware to software integration pisses me off. I’m now thinking of buying a controller for VDJ7 and FTW!

  • http://audiotecna.info/ Alfredo bicho Vargas

    Only time will tell. We have seen old gear turn obsolete and forgotten by the manufacturer, but still useful. If there are only a couple of uses for this controller in some years, maybe people will still use it.

    Hopefully NI will open the standard when they have sold certain quantity…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

    In light of this recent debacle, I’d like to discuss my view of what just happened with Traktor.

    I’m certainly happier that Native Instruments is working on expanding the capabilities of their software, but this recent ‘panty twist’ was certainly a third rail for a lot of people, including Senior Management. Perhaps the reason Native Instruments is looking for a new “Senior Product Manager TRAKTOR” is partially because the Traktor project wasn’t representing the company in the way Native Instruments wanted it to be and are now in “Damage Control” phase.

    Certainly, Native Instruments wants to maintain (and expand) their enthusiast base (that’s where a lot of their money comes from) and make their products “the best you can get.” One major (compound) misstep and one medium one were made on the previous Product Manager’s “clock” which probably got them fired or “asked to resign”;

    1) The Bridging Err… (the major (compound misstep)

    a) For at least 2 Years after of Serato and Ableton’s “The Bridge” was released, Traktor had not even addressed the ability to provide the functionality of “The Bridge”, which is a major oversight in this world of “Instant Mash-Ups” and expanded abilities for (Producers and) DJs.
    b) Many enthusiasts have been asking “Why wouldn’t Native Instruments want to expand the functionality of Traktor so I could buy and integrate Maschine (or any other Native Instruments program) in my workflow… like Adobe products do?”
    c) The previous Product Manager was either so narrow-minded that they weren’t able to see this and respond to it, or saw it and decided not to explore bridging Traktor with other software (internally like Maschine (hello add-on sales) or externally like say… Ableton or Reason or ProTools for instance) to see if it was a worthwhile project to develop for (knowing full-well that “The Bridge” had been released and was an advantage their competitor had).
    d) In light of this err, the Product Manager adopted the “Go it alone” and “Make a quick and dirty copy of that!” policies which means that a lot of resources were wasted trying to be *NOT AS GOOD AS* the collaboration project of “The Bridge.”
    e) Finally, enthusiasts were enraged to find out that the recent software sales promotion felt like an underhanded maneuver to get people to pay for something they wanted; “New, enhanced functionality, yet easier to use than Ableton Live” (and universal control of these features), but they weren’t going to get (without specific hardware to unlock them). Most found out they’d never get this level of control without the specific hardware *AFTER* they made their purchase which made people feel duped and angry, causing many enthusiasts to swear off *ALL* Native Instruments products and that’s something Senior Management WOULD NOT TOLERATE. Personally, I presume the previous Project Manager was on their “Final Warning” when they tried to secretly ramrod the F1 sales down people’s throats.

    2) Failure to respond to Controller Manager Interface usability (the medium one)

    The Project Manager did not respond (well) to frequent requests to make the Controller Manager window more… manageable. Traktor is known for it’s High-Quality and it’s Universality (through MIDI controls) and scripting the universality part has been something so kludegy that very few people actually wanted to deal with it for years (the window wasn’t even resizeable and very little documentation was available for it). The Controller Manager needs to be revamped so bad that at least one 3rd party developer (Xtreme Mapping http://www.xtrememapping.com/) made an app that improved it’s usability (for the Mac) and that’s a sign that they were doing things wrong. I hope Native Instruments buys this company and employs these people.

    Each (sub-) point on it’s own is an action worthy of reprimand but when compounded, these actions show a much larger problem in management ability (at this level, you’re expected to put a world-class team), failure to do so requires removal/replacement. This is what happens to people that; feel they don’t need to respond to their clients, force solutions on people they don’t want and don’t consider how their actions and their project fits into their company as a whole.

    A final note: I totally agree with the people that say “Traktor (Native Instruments) should have had 3rd Party Developers pay to be natively included in the upcoming release, but should also have made manual mapping an option (whether it’s HID or MIDI)”… and that’s something the next Product Manager is going to have to face.

    • DJ Freshfluke

      uhm, correction:

      a) nobody has been fired or resigned in the dj line. the opposite: additional ppl get hired at NI for the dj line.

      b) FAQs always stated that the full functionality of the remix decks can only be achieved with the F1. the bridge was never the role model.

      c) unfortunately, the controller manager (and its looks) is buried so deep into the whole NI programming structure that updating it is no simple task as you might think.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/74GPCKBL73EQ6VJCZLGNAZYN7A Paul

    WHY is anyone suprised at N.I.
    They release absolute garbage lately forget consumers opinions we want CASH!!
    As an S2 user 2.5 is useless i get nothing out of an upgrade even if it is FREE besides wait for future updates that enable to use of the remix decks without an F1.
    Now when i got my S2 i had issues with the drivers and this is still a problem for me, so has N.I. released a changelog of the bugs fixed? In order to fix the bugs they also have to be recognized as a bug, and the CPU usage of traktor didnt seem like a bug to N.I. nor did the driver issue so my guess is that the 2.5 will be NOTHING like what they imagined it. Lets be honest now how many S2/S4 would have sold without the use of the custom mapping by DJTT. The default mapping for the controller were very limiting and being able to map the software was a big selling point for me.

    Im done with N.I. this is just the start guys and if they want to shit all over the people who are pushing their products the hardest(ean,DJTT) and making them stacks of cash what do you think they think of us as consumers??

    Who gives a shit about remix decks why not focus on VST plugins and a traktor multitrack editor so users can multitrack their mixes…Native shoutcast support, KEY detection with data mining of beatport…..i could go on for days!

    there are alot of alternatives to traktor and i have to say they work on newer better features instead of half wit ideas.
    http://www.pcdj.com/
    PCDJDEX:
    Support for professional VST effects.
    Automatic grid-based BPM detection with batch processing.
    Video mixing (including pitch, break, reverse, scratch video).Timecode vinyl/CD support

    EPIC FAIL this is like microsoft coming out with windows 8 for free but in order to run it you have to buy the new sextuplet core laptop to support the touch screen features……BALLS

  • DJ Jack Meoff

    A little off topic but ties in with the proposed hacking thought. Whats keeping us from hacking traktor and serato. Whats in the code or hardware prevents using for example a traktor box with Serato software or in this case midi control over remix decks. Is it encryption or some fancy piece of hardware that’s not easy to modify or replicate…

  • moonunit

    CONCLUSION: The free Traktor Pro 2.5 update for all registered users is a BAD JOKE!
    ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH what a let down. I just got blueballed by Traktor.
    IMPOSSIBRUUU

  • Ryan Supak

    Give them a little time.

    New features take time to get working with stability in a native environment, let alone bringing somebody else’s hardware into the mix. See: Apple/Microsoft.

    (Yes, I know you work in IT and you’ve written a small line-of-business app, and you think it “shouldn’t be that hard” but it is.)

    rs

  • Anonymous

    For those interested. The official response from NI to their community.

    http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166665

    scamo

    • DJ Gerry Mac

      I went to this link  and it is a closed topic because…. NI is trying to redefine MIDI? A MIDI signal is a MIDI signal, PERIOD. The Commodore 64 could do it.

  • Tragik11

    Dan, u should have get all the facts together before posting the last article.  If I would have known they where going to allow mapping in the future I would have not wrote “F.U. N.I” on their fb …. *browsing for the post to delete.   -1000 FOR YOU DJTT : /

    • DJ Freshfluke

       i agree. this article was badly researched… started only trouble and confused the users. i’m done with DJTT.

  • Civ142000

    I don’t mind waiting for it to open up, and it will come with a mapping window update. That’s a win/win in my book.

  • Djpituto

    don’t update! simply not?

  • isobar

    I don’t know… I’m a developer, and this sounds more like “We didn’t have time to rewrite the api and hit the release date.” Every developer (3d, for example) hacks functionality in, and then with the 2.0 release they fix the I/O to work correctly. I am extremely gratified that people were so angry, that NI fell compelled to make a commitment to addressing HID in a 2.x release. So, natch.

  • angry bird

    after that faux pax yesterday and the (good) attempt at manipulating ppl, releasing halfassed facts to stir things up you’ve not even been able to write the name of the product manager correctly? DJTT officially turned into yellow press.

    p.s.: do your homework, dan white. it’s been in the FAQs since day one that the functionality of the remix decks can only fully be used with the F1.

    • http://spencerthayer.tumblr.com Spencer “Thunderball” Thayer

      A lot of people, including myself, didn’t know about this. So… It’s journalism to us. Deal with it.

      • angry bird

         if you’re a journalist, you have to do your homework. this is, at least, read the website. or even try to get an answer from the company in question. everything else is … garbage, not journalism.

  • Stefan Jansen

    who wants to provide a F1, so i can take a look at getting those remix decks working with different gear? :)

  • victor steen

    It doesn’t really bother me i am planning on buying a midi fighter 3D
    and a F1 because i think they are both brilliant controllers. They are
    cheap enough to buy one controller each pay week.

    i like to support brands like NI and Dj tech tools because they do so
    much for the Dj community and the only way we will see new gear is from
    our support.$$$$$$$

     

  • Evil

    Who benefits most? People like me who have been using pirated copies of Traktor and want to keep up.

    Here is how i did it – i bought a Traktor scratch duo upgrade kit (A6 + TC) last year. Sure beats buying a TSP2 kit.

    Now, i can own a licenced copy of 2.5 with a “free” F1.

    Yes, I’m an evil man. But I wish to point out that NI is seriously pissing off a lot of legitimate clients. Much more than these clients would be pissed off by the likes of me.

  • JOEY

    I CANT BELIEVE NATIVE IS DOING THIS TO US WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY OMG WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

  • Shishdisma

    There was an additional little detail in the DJworx article I’ll share.

    “Once NI are happy that the workflow functions as they want it to in the closed loop, they’ll open it up to mapping in the controller manager. This is no easy task, as it’ll require quite a bit of deconstruction of Traktor and the controller manager to reengineer relevant parts to work in an open manner”

    Translation:

    “Were knocking off Live, and creating some expensive as Hell hardware that is invalidated by dozens of controllers already. In order to make our money back, we need to sell this hardware really good, so until we make a ton of money, you’re stuck using our system. Once we make our money back, we’ll open up the protocol, tell you we created some arcane mapping technology that Live has had since it’s inception, and then let you go back to using your cheap clip launchers.”

    • Kevknight85

      That was actually someone in the comments, not the article itself.

      • Godzilla Jr.

         Clarification: The first quote is from the article. The second quote is someone in the comments.

  • Anonymous

    OK NI. A totally new open API? Please explain more. Will it still “speak” with Midi? If not, why not? At least, they are listening to customers. That is positive.

    “We certainly hope NI works carefully with communities like DJ TechTools
    to figure out the best way to build on a great tradition and keep
    innovation rolling!”

    Absolutely!

    And thanks DJTT, for getting down to the nitty gritty as best you could with NI. Now the question is, how do we get into a dialog with the community about this new API?

    scamo

  • http://www.djpc3.com/ DJ PC3

    Lol I guess I’m just too lazy to hack, or to scared of a mid-performance crash, to use some jerry-rigged work-around… not saying its bad for anyone who decides go either of those routes (by all means knock yourself out). 

    So I am just gonna drop the $250, upgrade from my X1 and call it a day. I’m a working DJ with a little bit of money, I’ll use it as a tax write-off and call it an investment lol

    But I would interested in knowing when the open the platform a little more…

  • Grollhanin

    let’s try not to be that negative.

    come on, this is a buissness thing, NI made an investment into it’s software which has to be paid. do you really think it was fair to expect such improvements for free?
    that NI lets you take advantage of a whole range of new functions with some cheap controllers you already own? why should they then bother to build controllers anyway? stop whining about things like a child, that expected a wii for christmas and then got a pair of socks!

    just remember the traktor s4 software which was only available in bundle with the s4. no sapmle decks…and it was the same: “why not for everybody…”. just a few months later, when the s4 had been sold in reasonable numberns they launched tranktor pro2 and everybody was happy again. so lets just be patient and wait. i’m pretty shure that they will make them mapable some day.

    if you deperatly need launching clips, the f1 is not that expensive. things need to be financed somehow and we should not expect something for nothing.

  • http://twitter.com/DJPeterLo DJ Peter Lo

    DJTT, thank you for this piece of investigative journalism. You’re doing the right thing here, and I really appreciate the work done. You’re acting as an influential voice on behalf of the digital DJ’ing community, and you’re wonderful advocates of our cause. 

    PS- my new DJTT gear came in the mail today! At least some good news!

  • PO’d

    this got edited since it was posted… lot of “nicer wording”

    did NI send you guys a message saying to not trash this bullshit update they are pushing out?  cmon NI. we all want to be able to use our controllers like before! what happened to all the openness? i know you said its a hardware thing, but you could have worked to this differently, focusing on allowing controllers of all sorts from the start!

  • John Bash

    From a business perspective it really is smart of NI to do this. I was definitely going to buy the maschine to “shoot two birds with one stone” (production and launching in maschine/traktor pro 2). But now I might be looking at just getting the F1. They’re still getting my money either way I choose. Knowing NI though I don’t think it will be too long until they integrate full midi. Also, some people are mad about the 2.5 update being pretty much useless, but I came from Traktor duo and appreciate the upgrade even if I don’t get full MIDI functionality of the Remix Decks without the F1. 

    That being said I still think it sucks that we all have to wait to use our 3rd party midi controllers to work with the remix decks. Oh well. 

  • DJ MiCL

    Hi, I was intrigued… NI said “Three different features that power the F1 have not been built into the mapping interface” as if all the other features have? 

    • DJ MiCL

      Please excuse my multi-post.  What I mean is, input-wise that would be just 12 button mappings and one encoder (scroll) away from full feature, which sounds rather…odd to say the least? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002910163151 Bastian Gabrysch

    Why would I ever use Traktor like this anyways? Hello Ableton? Combine them and u have as many remix/sample/one shot and what not decks as u want.

  • Phil Wilkins

    So of course the real reason is they’re overstretched technically, and had to cut something in order to ship in time. I’ve been holding at 2.0.3, and will stay there until 2.5.x has stabilised, because you know this is going to ship with a dozen random things broken.

  • Kylemac

    Problem resolved everyone, NI is still on our side :)

  • Ru4FckingReal

    Who at NI was dumb enough to let this go at launch. Do they not see how much this makes them look like total jackasses?

  • http://twitter.com/therealholtron holtron

    Looks like a PR nightmare.

  • unknown

    for the hack teamair aor union that is all

  • @Philosurfer_

    Wow, kinda surprised by all the anti-NI sentiment here, but then again this is the DDJT comments section and there’s always a bunch of trippers here.

    Anyways, if I had to choose between an extremely open platform made to accommodate all hardware but was less feature rich and complex than a closed platform of next-level proportions, I know where I’d go.

    Luxury shit costs money. To make and to buy. Don’t blame NI for this. $280 for an ableton-style dj program with a sick ass piece of hardware that is integrated to perfection? Sign me up.

  • http://twitter.com/NotSoSiniSter NotSoSiniSter

    I hate NI’s business direction. They want to be all Apple and be all closed source. But that is not going to fucking happen. Its like they’re so caught up in force feeding their hardware they forgot why people fucking love traktor. The S2 and S4 were big hits, because they were all in one DJ units. But with little controller like the F1, those controls can be applied to fucking anything, and made better with different midi controllers.

    If they focused on nothing except software, fixing the mapping window, fixed bugs promptly, left Traktor wide open to any midi or sound device, they would make more money. 

    As for the challenge idea, they should make that shit official. Their programmers fucking suck for all I care. The internet would eat that shit up.

  • gary

    I bought an Audio 6 around 2 months ago to use as an audio interface for production and live shows. I could have easily gone with a more fully-featured interface for the same price (like a Focusrite), but I figured if the Remix Decks worked well I could switch from my current DVS to Traktor Scratch and get more bang for my buck.

    I feel a bit screwed since a month later the Audio 6 now includes TSP for only $50 more and to top it off the Remix Decks are, as of right now, mostly unusable with my midi controllers (launchpad, padkontrol, nanokontrol). WAY TO GO NATIVE INSTRUMENTS!!!  I should have just bought a Serato box and tried The Bridge.  

  • Imagenitwithmusic

    Wow I must remember that one, a “happy accident”. Sorry dude but sleeping with your girlfriend while you were away was a ‘happy accident’.

  • Anonymous

    “Jim: Traktor kind of has a heritage of people hacking into it…” and NI trying to stop them. It seems like NI is doing to well, so they think they are all set with the garden of eden. However this is short sighted and is the perfect breeding ground for market disrupting innovations. At any rate, while Mixxx is still far away from being able to compete on features (especially in the FX department) .. its certainly very hackable. Maybe this will push more users who want to remain full empowered towards Mixxx ..

  • Stewe

    What’s with the bars? Are there some politic changes?

  • Cosmizsoundz

    Lame move on NI part if you ask me.  But I guess they really want to sell those F1′s

    Bryon Stout
    http://www.deephouselounge.com

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Weinhold/1731897292 Robert Weinhold

    Well guess I’ll wait for the final product and check the update and then try and decide if I get the F1 or MF3D… atm I am tending toward the MF3D just hope it will be mappable to work the remix decks….

  • Quine

    Thanks for updating the post. It is only with constant pressure from consumers that companies stay true to their consumers’ interests and don’t turn into money-grubbing evil corporations.

    I think this whole snafu was entirely NI’s fault – they should have simply added a sentence to their on the record responses that said “All of the remix deck features will eventually be integrated into the controller manager in a free 2.x update.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/Gavintech Gavin Varitech

    How many of you crying about this like NI has wronged you in some way use Apple products?

    • http://twitter.com/protocollie late-model haterbot

    • Sp

      THANK YOU!

  • Massiv

    Anyway, I’ll use less traktor and more Ableton Live from now. For live performance, mashups and remix, ableton live is limitless and you can arrange all your controllers the way you want. I had hope for tracktor :(

  • http://twitter.com/DigitalKw3rty Yaakob Williams

    wtf… i thought this was gonna be awesome. its like use our hardware or don’t use it at all. what happen to all the customization?

  • 4321djgear

    This, (remix decks), for Traktor 2.5 would have been the perfect time for supporting all the Maschine users. I own Traktor S4 with Scratch and think allowing more poeple into the awesome program via free Traktor Pro 2 licences with purchase of hardware is a good thing. I was really surprised that NI locked its own devices out of the remix decks, Maschine. People on the fence about Maschine might have bought it for the dual purpose of remix decks controller and of course its awesome production value.

  • Ricardo Cavero

    this is to shoot oneself in the foot. NI directly promoting an open source solution for DJs, that sooner or later will come up.

  • Miguel

    Vestax vci-400 ean golden edition mappings are also locked to the hardware. Serato also uses SL box as a way to unlock their software. Pioneer Cdj’s software is only unlocked to Serato and Mixvibes. The list goes on. We should all stop with this locking abuse. Freedom generates more growth and creativity. Fear generates failure.

  • http://twitter.com/NotSoSiniSter NotSoSiniSter

    fuck NI. i was seriously considering buying into 2.5 and use it with my (still waiting on it) QuNeo and Ipad 3. Looks like I’m going to stick with the ableton direction I’m going with now. 

    Directly to NI: WE ARE NOT A BUNCH OF IDIOTS!!!! This the internet. This mob of people has been known to work around, fix and manipulate any hardware that has been put in front of us. From phones to Xboxs, we fuck with it. Instead of shafting everyone on and limiting the future of DJing, you decide to close it up. I guarantee you that someone will crack it and let it be used with other hardware, just like they have been doing with Scratch and your stupid sound cards. I don’t care if the mapping editor becomes complicated, people will turn to the internet for help, and people WILL live with it. 

    • patch

      Yup.  Tha internetz is badass.

  • ML

    welp there goes the mockup mappings I had to use the remix decks with an APC 20… complete BS

  • Dax

    limits creative expression by limiting an operators hardware choice. 

    Next they update Traktor to only play beatport or itunes purchased tracks..

  • Anonymous

    this comes as a real disappointment 

  • Totes

    Wow, this kinda sucks. Makes Traktor 2.5 completely useless to 99% of the general population. They are hoping this will force more people to buy the F1, I think this may backfire on them.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Gavintech Gavin Varitech

       How is Traktor 2.5 useless?

  • winks

    i may just stick to serato, and send back the s4 and x1 i
    just ordered rather than giving traktor a go. i have a few days to make up my mind, but i was looking forward something different.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1518584826 Matthias Duyck

    Off course there will be a hacker smart enough to work around this… It is the internet you are talking about…

  • Dannybyrne29

    this article is causing bedlam in the NI forum…..!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Gavintech Gavin Varitech

     http://djworx.com/mapping-traktors-remix-decks-the-facts/

  • Freelite

    This makes Ableton Djing more relevant. With an APC40 costing about the same price as the F1 (without software, but in terms of potential Traktor cannot compete with Ableton -> Live remain a worthy investment. And I guess we are a lot to own both software). Ableton remains still complicated to use, recquires time to be managed.

    NI is probably making much more money when selling hardware. But they should not forget that controlerism is all about unique setups, personnal combination of gear and experiments. Therefore, if their software is not relevant anymore, they won’t be the innovative software anymore. But I think they will still sell a lot of their products: a lot of DJs don’t need controllers, but CDJs equivalents. 

  • Boxcar

    Wow there’s a lot of whiners here. Native Instruments owes you NOTHING. It’s a business, just like DJTT and both have the same agenda ($$$). The fact that an update (which you are not owed) allows for increased usage through a new controller does not meant that you are being deprived of anything.  When I buy software, and a new better update comes out, I don’t complain and whine that the software I bought is broken or no longer sufficient for my needs, it functions the exact same as it did before the newest one. If you want the enhanced ability of the remix decks, get the F1. But not having remix decks doesn’t change what you already paid for. 

    • Davidrvulich

       if djtt is all about money then why do they give out free mappings?  

      • http://twitter.com/digitalnatured D.N.A.

        i think “all about money” is a bit rash, but they don’t do things for free. No business does, unless they are a Non-Profit.

        Look at the DJTT website for a few minutes.  Add space.  DJTT Store.  Articles written will undoubtedly refer to an item found in the store.  Maps are user generated content.

    • http://spencerthayer.tumblr.com Spencer “Thunderball” Thayer

      Native Instruments may not owe an explanation.  But their customers experience with their products is critical to their survival.  It’s simple market economics dude.

      The producer is tied to the consumer.  If the consumer is upset with a choices the producers makes the producers must change to survive.  Attacking the consumer because they are upset with a producers change of strategy is dumb.  And upset consumers should rally together to force the producer to change.  After all it is the consumers right to choose how they spend their money and the producers right to go out of business.

  • http://www.facebook.com/fooyong Tony Foo Yong

    Here’s my reply on their Facebook page posted for posterity here in case it’s taken down:

    I can’t wait to have to buy an F1 to get this 2.5 software upgrade after recently purchasing an S2 …Hoping that the amazing crew at N.I. will reconsider the recent decisions to constrain the control of Traktor via hardware. 
    I know the company needs to sell as many units of hardware as it can, but sometimes letting go and giving back yields results in huge steps forward for everyone and most importantly for the music.
    How much of a standstill would electronic music, the same music that the largest of your demographic customer base prefers, be at today if Steinberg had only made the use of VST’s available only to their specific hardware for the sake of making shareholders satisfied ?
    I think things would be pretty stagnant right now, and N.I. might not even be a fraction of the excellent company that they are as of today.
    As much as I love the digital frontier of DJ’ing there’s an equal amount of frustration involved that could just push me spend the profuse amount of money spent annually that I spend on gear and just buy vinyl again and utilize the massive record collection I’ve already acquired in the last 15 years and ditch the controllers with a quickness.
    I’m not a marketing analyst, or any type of financial expert , but I am a customer and have been dedicated one. Will I remain this way depends on the ethics that Native Instruments demonstrates towards the worldwide DJ community. 

  • http://twitter.com/RIP_KING Rifkizzle

    awesome… So the Maschine I bought with the intention of being able to remap to the remix decks was a pretty expensive toy to buy.  Thanks NI! Worthless update. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/Gavintech Gavin Varitech

      That was pretty stupid of you. Why would you buy an expensive closed software/hardware solution to control something else anyways?

    • http://twitter.com/RIP_KING Rifkizzle

      Cause I thought the 16 pads would work perfectly for Traktor.  It’s probably one of the nicest pad controllers on the market, and I wanted something that was usable both for production and DJ’ing… Also, the Maschine has velocity sensitive pads, something the F1 does not. I’m still using the Maschine regularly, just not going to be used for one of the big reasons I was hoping to use it for. 

  • kramerbuccs24

    I’m a bit confused as to exactly what capabilities the S4 has to control these new remix decks. Still sounds identical to what it can already do with the current sample slots. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

  • Crazyjose1981

    G-A-Y! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/PaulHolland-DoubleDutchdj/100001027166218 PaulHolland DoubleDutchdj

    NI have been heading in a shit direction for long time now, but this is still a massive shock and to fob us off with some bull about the RMX decks being to complex for midi is about  insulting as all the fuss they made about the free upgrade.  OF course there just looking at the bigger financial picture, but stunts like this just make me wanna return the middle finger that NI are saluting towards us and jump ship to other software. It’s like they’ve gone in to massive great big greedy wanker mode in the last few years where all they care about is getting new customers and fuck the old loyal ones.

    If the build quality of the X1,S4 and S2 are anything to go by then the F1 will be 99% plastic, with cheap fades and plastic rotary pots. Now thats alight if your smooth dj, but for those who man handle controls and get involved, these plastic controllers will loose there nice feel after a year at most. 

    The point Im making is, if we’re being forced in to this closed door mentality at least provide us with decent hardware options that aren’t just designed for max profit. 

    What a massive let down, shame on you NI, you lost a lot friends and allies today.

    Make your voice heard people, not just on here but everywhere possible, NI need know that this is a massive mistake

  • celtic-dj

    unbelievable…been using traktor for more then 7 years and i am never contributing NI any of my money…lying is a bad marketing tool, so is making a fool of your customers !!!
    the current sample decks are a joke,, i cant imagine how many updates NI will release before the new remix decks will work properly.
    they are shooting themselves in the leg…serious remixing is done in ableton or a dj program with a “time line” anyways…

    thanks for the info DJTT…

  • http://www.facebook.com/gbushkuhl Grant Bushkuhl

    lame

  • DJ Gerry Mac

    This is definitely a step backward UNLESS you are trying to get your hardware sales up. Traktor paved the way to make sure we have a diverse personal workflow NOW they want to DICTATE what hardware we use. Pioneer wins again – meaning it goes unchanged inside the DJ booth. If we DJs didn’t have choices like Traktor made possible with flexible MIDI mapping we would all still be using SSL 1 (hahaha), now the thing that made Traktor (use of any controller) they are going to implement the same idea as its once dominating competitor.
    Note to Traktor – Please stick to making versatile software improvements, your hardware is always going to be second rate. Let us pick the controllers. Thank you.
    On my to do list…. Let’s see if it really doesn’t matter what software you use these days and it is all about the DJ and how he uses it. There are a number of free DJ apps out there. I have a few free hours to check them all out since Traktor which I pay for once to limit my use. Even though tit is starting with an irrelevant feature for me anyway. What will they pull the plug on next.
    Thanks for the info Ian. I know this is a blow to you because I have watched your style of DJing. It really opened a new possible level for you. Can’t wait to see your work around.

  • lethal_pizzle

    I’ve put a feature request in the Traktor Pro forum:
    http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166618
    …please add your +1s and constructive thoughts. Ta

  • Mrbeat1

    Native Instruments just give DJTT the famous Archie slap

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

    I think it’s interesting that on the Native Instruments’ website they’re hiring for: “Senior Product Manager TRAKTOR” under their “DUAL BRAINS. WANTED.” section… Are they saying that there are some idiots working at NI right now, or that they just fired a few people for incompetence?

    It is very possible this person was “let go” for recent missteps or was forced to step-down rather than develop a product that doesn’t follow the company policy of “Give ‘em everything!”, but then again, I think this debacle was a Senior Product Designer’s fault (for not requiring all controls to be at least MIDI assignable) *AND* a Senior Marketing Manager’s fault (for *cheaply* selling the sizzle that simply won’t be delivered for most).

  • http://www.facebook.com/privateprincemoe Prince Moe

    One word “money”. It’s all about money and it always will be obviously. As much as I love NI but I do find it crackin their politics a little. They were always the most awesome on the market from all other providers.. Happily me I don’t like to be forced to something so I simply will stay with the version I have and with VCI Ean Golden Edition! Perhaps I’ll go for the Midi Fighter 3D… Did I understand right, the Midi Fighter 3D works with the Remix Decks?

  • patch

    Serious props to DJTT for sticking their neck out and saying this.  

  • C Lab

    This runis all my plans!!! i was going to turn my APC40 into two Kontrol F1′s!!! :(

  • http://www.facebook.com/Dadblaster69 Will Hart

    Someone start a F1 boycott page on Facebook and I’ll “like” it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Dadblaster69 Will Hart

    NO! THIS SUCKS!

  • Whatnext9

    When is this ” sound familiar? That’s the solution offered by pioneers cdj line that Traktor is supposed to be replacing” happening… Seems more important to me than a silly f1 that I wasn’t going to purchase anyway….

  • Lreddee

    Wow. You guys make SO much money off of selling this company’s stuff on your site…and you’re throwing a tantrum about something before the release date even drops? Really professional. 

    • Booyakashot

      Amen!

    • Owen

      At least they are not biased. If anything them not voicing an opinion on the matter would be less professional. 

  • Joel

    I acctually regret getting an S2 now even though I like it. Used ITCH before and moved to traktor for the mapping side of things. Perhaps VDJ or Torq would have been a better choice.

  • Lauti

    And we can’t forget that 2.5 is probably going to be BUGGY AS HELL TOO.

  • Rukks

    If only NI would waste all this time closing there software off to parts that could be midi mapped and say…..

    Improve the current midi mapping system.

    Or make is more reliable for windows users….so many dreams from one customer and so little advancement in 4 years.

    Sad days! I could care less about however many extra slots. They are trying to compete with ableton but haven’t innovated anything with the remix decks.

    The marketing team at NI should be dismantled.

  • http://spencerthayer.tumblr.com Spencer “Thunderball” Thayer

    I don’t know how useful this is but I think we should start a petition to convince NI to change this policy. So to start that I made one, http://www.change.org/petitions/native-instruments-unlock-traktor-2-5-s-remix-decks-to-all-midi-controllers . DJTT mods please promote this if you see fit.

    • Apoplexia Music

      signed!

    • André

      Signed!!

  • http://spencerthayer.tumblr.com Spencer “Thunderball” Thayer

    Hey DJTT website admin. Can you tell us if anyone from Native Instruments has viewed this page? I would like to hear a response from NI concerning all the negative responses.

  • http://twitter.com/digitalnatured D.N.A.

    During Beta testing I discovered this issue but was bound by NDA and couldn’t share, so I guess it is old news, but still disappointing from the controller aspect. Clearly a power move, considering they are now making Hardware to compliment their software, and want to sell the hardware, without losing biz to APC and other controllers of the sort. Once they have made the cash, the parameters may end up being mappable. Hopefully.

    Amongst all of the negative comments here, you may be getting only control of the first slot, but these remix decks are a lot better than the Sample decks in functionality and flexibility, and that should not go unmentioned.  

    I have found some loop holes, but they still require a mouse click or keyboard entry.  KeytoMIDI can be your friend in this instance.

  • Gzo

    …..And I thought that Ableton turned into a shit company!!! First the Kore2-killing, now they are killing TRaktor….what is NI thinking anyway? TP2 was definetely my last NI product for quite a time, at least until they catch their head again!

  • Anonymous

    I personally think this is a major misdirection from NI. They set a standard of good (not perfect) midi control for just about every function Traktor has to offer and it started a wave of mapping and controller creation. This site lived a lot from this wave (without it, there would never have been a Midi-Fighter). Traktorbible lives from it too. Those are just off the top of my head. I am sure there are more. DJTT made a mapping database and the most maps available there are for Traktor. The same goes for Traktorbible’s mapping database.

    Mapping and the flexibility to do basically what you want to do is a good portion of what made Traktor as popular as it is today. So with NI’s decision, they are practically renigging on the de facto standard they set themselves. Traktor was a digital DJ “platform” and now that platform is being reduced to an NI tool. Small thinking. Really small thinking. They can make money with the software and hardware without locking it down and they need to rethink this carefully.

    I am really disappointed and it worries me too because, where will this end? I wrote in the NI forum, NI might as well just delete the complete Controller Manager out of Traktor and get it over with. But if they do. I will rather not buy another NI DJ product…ever.

    I’ve put in so much work into my Effect Jogs mappings over the last few months and knowing NI doesn’t even really care about “mappers” and their contribution to NI’s own success is really depressing me. NI might as well just take a crap right on my S4, because right now, I think they have betrayed me in just about the same way. Some might say it is an overreaction. It’s simply how I feel. Especially since DJTT has posted this blog, it means, it is fact, this is NI’s plan.

    And it sucks!

    scamo
      

    • Anonymous
    • Jareth

      Hi scamo, will this update affect your incredibly cool mapping? Will it still work if I upgrade?

      • Anonymous

        To be honest, I am not sure. There are some changes/improvements to the Controller Manager in 2.5. It would be terrible if mappings would be affected by them. We’ll all have to wait and see.

        scamo

    • toni

      Stupid movement!
      I hope companies like Pioneer / Denon / Numark… who invested a lot of money in LE and PRO TRAKTOR knows how to answer N.I.

      In my point of view N.I it is trying to keep out the big companies to the new big dj midi market.

      lol

    • alex

      I don’t think it is an overreaction Scamo.  I completely agree with you and recognize that you quite rightly appreciate the versatility and customizability that the controller manager  offers.  I don’t think that this trend will continue as there seems to be much negative reaction too it.  I am definitely going to post a negative reaction on NI forum soon and do whatever else I can do to give this opposition more voice.

      I don’t think that this trend will continue or worsen as you say.  It seems that NI will be coming out with mapping access to remix decks “eventually”.  If anyone knows when exactly please let me know because IM ABOUT TO WRECK THIS SHIT once I get my ableton-type beats going with my djing tip!   HHAHa

      Oh btw, that reminds me.  The remix decks are pretty much ableton clips native to traktor.  Right?  ITs the same god damn thing as having 4 tracks of ableton with 16 clips on each no?  So fuck the mappings.  Ill just do it in ableton and automap to clips right?  Umm.. not so fast.  Ableton doesn’t have good mapping abilities right.. and Oh yeah you can’t fucking sync the two programs.  WTF!!!!!!

      OMG I’m getting angry now.  Anyway I agree.  This f1 stuff is BS and anyone who says otherwise is being WILLFULLY IGNORANT.  

      Obama 2012′

      • Anonymous

        Alex, just to also set the record straight here. NI has said they will open up the Mix Decks to midi-mapping. They even mentioned doing an overhaul of the whole system to improve the Controller Manager and mapping commands. So, all is not lost mate.:)

        scamo

  • DJZ

    well congrats NI you did it!!!!! I was thinking about switching to ableton for my live performances a while ago and then I heard that this new update would be coming out so I decided to stay with Traktor…… Now I am back to Ableton…. I would not have expected this from such a reputable company!!!!! Skrew u NI

  • http://twitter.com/DJFaintLA Faint L.A.

    Thank you NI. You’ve made my decision, relatively, simple. 

  • http://twitter.com/The_Real_LouieV Louie V.

    Gotta love how DJTT writers never give credit to the forum members… 

  • http://ccombe.tumblr.com/ Chris Combe

    Not happy at all about this.. Is NI worried about losing sales or just plain incompetent.. surely they have the know how to get 16 sample decks working if they can get 4 working, after all they have this in the Maschine (which I own, along with an S4).. 

    this approach doesn’t help anyone and just shows the focus is on selling more hardware instead of enabling more functionality on existing kit… the reason people like Traktor is that you can use any hardware on it and if you restrict capabilities in SW you are seriously alienating people.. 

    I would love a simple plug-n-play to use my Maschine and S4 together but apparently I have to buy an F1 now.. I am interested to see what NI have to say.. technical limitations just sounds like BS.. 

    • Apoplexia Music

      it just baffles me to see how NI are using completely false pretenses to mask their obvious desire to sell more hardware.

  • JoteYo

    Could we have the article on finding loops anyways? For use if we do get an F1/move to a more flexible platform…

    • Owen

      I am sure it is coming when the outrage dies down 

  • There all about the £££££

    I am not impressed, I don’t even know why. Out of principal more than anything I suppose. Most of my DJ related activities revolve around playing chart music as a mobile disco for 18th / 21st birthday parties / Disco bars etc…. It’s not like I would have even used the remix decks outside of my bedroom. Sure at home messing around they would have been really cool or at house parties but lets be real here 90% of people (maybe even more) will not be using them when they are playing out. Lets not all pretend we are next level live mash up artists. Most of us play soul crushing gigs for the money where little originality/performance/skill is even required. Once in a while we might get to play how we actually want to but our bread and butter gigs are standard.

    Just going to but a Midi 3D fighter instead now when I get the funds up. Fuck the new version. All I need is 2 decks and a mixer and more cowbell. Always always more cowbell.     

    • Tragik11

       MOAAAAAAR COWBELL indeed.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

       I appreciate that you make a living doing soul-crushing work, I’m an A/V Tech, I feel your pain. My opinion differs from yours in that I would like to be ABLE to to use the remix buttons as they were promised in the new version so that I *could* use those buttons during a set if I wanted to without having to bring one more thing to the clubs.

      • Owen

        I totally agree with you man, In the right hands they have the potential to be an absolute beast and if I saw someone playing out using them I would be impressed. But for your average DJ it is complete over kill. I was looking forward to just messing around with the remix decks at home and house parties. I thought the 3D would work so well with the remix decks. I can’t see me shelling out on the F1 knowing that thats the only way to use the them. Especially when its something that I would use just for a bit of fun. Disappointed with NI. 

  • tseug

    I just bought a cntrl:r so i could use te center part for the remix decks. Now I’m just fucked by native instruments. This joke costs me €800. 

    Whent “the one” comes out NI will never hear of me agian.

    I’m really mad right now

    • Rotebass

      What calibre was the gun that NI was holding to your head when they forced you to make that purchase?

    • http://spencerthayer.tumblr.com Spencer “Thunderball” Thayer

      Dude if you have a CNTRL:R what are you doing using Traktor? That should be used with Ableton or other DAWs. Traktor would never be the right fit for that controller even with the remix decks.

  • Jcalpito07

    APC 40/60?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Foster/1410024062 Brian Foster

    Ha Ha!  I’m still using Traktor 3.4!  I’m never spending another penny on DJ software until a company meets my needs and doesn’t try to screw me over on features.

  • Tragik11

    Dear NI:  You just made me consider other software options for the future.  I was happy with you until now.  Now I will definitely check “the one” and vdj8 … thanks for your business.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

           I have ITCH as part of a bundle I got my Controller with, but what really impresses me is that “VERY SOON,” ITCH users are supposed to be able to use Ableton Studio as part of ITCH through a collaborative program known as “the Bridge.” However, it’s been 3 years in development and no one has heard much of anything regarding Bridge for ITCH. If you’re truly interested, you can get Serato Scratch Live and Ableton Live *RIGHT NOW* and get much better functionality than the F1 in Traktor, or you can use ITCH (or Traktor for that fact) and Ableton separately and use them that way. This is something Traktor cannot do and will not be able to compete with… I think Native Instruments just handed their butts to Serato with this move.

      Why is it I feel like a pawn in this game between Serato and Native Instruments… one attempting to force the other to tip their hand regarding their newest releases?

           I was willing to try 16 tracks of pads per sample deck, “Ableton in a DJ way” for $89. Now it seems that $89 will be a good bye kiss unless Native Instruments changes their mind about the functionality of their program or somehow makes it worth my while to get an F1 (after I was duped into buying the software as a stand-alone).

  • Anonymous

    Great writeup!

    It’s hard for devs… It’s a free update… But updates aren’t free, they represent half a year or more of work for teams of people.

    Make it a $59 option to cover the cost of development and I’ll be happy. I was hoping to use touchosc and explore lemur with the new sample decks.

    It’s obvious, or should be, that their work comes first. They committed their resources to develope for their.device… Not for akais. After a few months I’m hoping that they will work out the MIDI mapping.

    There’s a big difference between locking out… And not committing the resources to develop the mapping controls needed.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

      Let’s try to see this in a different way… without the people with money buying the software Native Instruments makes, the developers would be working on something else, they’re making good money in a bad economic time so let’s not go too far with the “developer pity party.”

      Why should anyone be excluded from the development process? If Akai makes a controller that compliments Traktor, then they both make the world of DJing better and they both sell more units, just as any other developer making sought-after hardware, locking the software down sends a chill down everyone’s back that “something is very wrong now” and this is no-longer about helping people express themselves, it’s all about money. Most of the people complaining here feel duped that Native Instruments let them take their money and they aren’t getting what was promised.

      If I were the consultant for Native Instruments while they implement more HID-compliant controllers, I would have said the following: Don’t make any sudden changes or tick-off people. If you want to make changes to the software, be VERY CLEAR what people are getting, from the moment you’ve locked it down and why. Explain to your customers the benefits of your improvements and why it will need new hardware to explore the new features LONG BEFORE ANY MONEY EXCHANGES HANDS. If a long-standing company policy is changing, make that clear and make a “we’re changing this” PR video.

      Native Instruments did exactly the opposite and basically pumped people up to buy the new version of the software at a reduced rate which seemed to offer new, sought-after features (not hardware locked). There was no reason to question Native Instruments, they’ve never made this kind of move before…then the underground statement gets released about a month before the software gets released (and all the buyers have made their low-price-point purchases) that only the people that buy specific hardware will have the features unlocked… I’m sure this will sell more F1 controllers, but I’m also certain that the integrity of the company will never recover. 

  • Psykx

    if you want that much control I don’t see why your not using ableton live. 

  • Mentalu

    I call shinanigans

  • Bob6993

    boycot tractor anyone?

  • http://twitter.com/Lylax_Dubs Lylax

    very disappointing….the F1 is nice….but the price tag is a little too much. too bad because i was getting very excited using 2.5 with the midi fighter 3d.

  • Anonymous

    NI are a bunch of cunts. Always screwing with their customers at every opportunity.

  • Djfarmerjames

    maybe they just haven’t finished the user interface to allow us to map the extra loops to midi?

    • http://www.facebook.com/Gavintech Gavin Varitech

       http://djworx.com/mapping-traktors-remix-decks-the-facts/

  • Loudist

    After finally coming down on the side of Traktor (after months of deliberation of what my first software-only DJ’ing solution would be), this staggeringly short-sighted decision by Native Instruments means I will be buying Ableton instead, as I don’t want my professional reputation to be dependent on the flimsy construction methods normally applied by NI’s hardware division.

    Unless the F1 can be modded and upgraded, that is…

  • Joe Sixpack

    A real shame. However a great chance for other software vendors. Since the rumor mill is already rolling that Serato will bring a more open Pro Software and actually the sneak peak of Virtual DJ 8 is also looking stunning and highly customizeable… If VDJ really manages to close the gap, their version 8 might be a winner, especially if the new custom mapping interface and mapping language are as easy as demonstrated in Frankfurt.

  • Kylemac

    Extremely frustrating NI.

  • B Badazz

    Fuck NI seriously!! They always wanna sell new toys, NEVER EVER making an update worth downloading…unless you want spend more money on stuff you really don’t need!
    I say boycot NI!!! This is just ridiculous! I was always wondering why Serato is twice the price…maybe because I’ve never heard of anyone having a single problem with the product or paying for updates…maybe it’s time to make a switch

  • Lucas

    the only thing you can do is route traktors “normal” Decks a+b into ableton,
    sync them and than bring in the samples and sounds in your mix via ableton live ( launchpad, apc……). that way you can still work with traktor….
    anybody else out there havin´ a better idea????

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

       Check out “the Bridge”… from Serato and Ableton (you’d have to convert to Scratch Live for “all-in-one” use of both.

      For now, if you want to use Ableton with Traktor (if you must use Traktor) you’ll either need to launch it in the background or move the workspace of Ableton onto a second monitor. I recommend an additional controller for this process though. You *CAN* route decks through Ableton, and you can also get the advanced VST sounds which aren’t available in Traktor *AT ALL.*

  • http://twitter.com/beau_bryte Beau Bryte

    I guess someone will hack the driver soon, then adds an emulated device routed to midi, so every apc and machine user can use it.
    First the price drop for updates, then they promised every user to get 2.5 for free. But it’s rather useless now ain’t it? I’m a prehistoric Traktor user, but somehow native instruments let me down over and over again.

    • DJAPART

      Can’t wait to see your mapping for it, hah.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

      How hard would it have been to state: “The only way you’re going to be able to use these new controls is with the new F1.” in their marketing campaigns? 

  • Paco Loco

    This is really disappointing. I hope you are listening to all the feedback you are getting here NI – your customers have spoken.

    • B Badazz

      Too bad NI doesn’t give a shit about it’s customers…

  • OBRI3N

    I want to know if… The sample slots can hold whole songs and not be ‘limited’ to 32 bars. I want to be sble to open sets of songs at a time.

  • Stewe

    It’s fine with me, wasn’t very excited about using or mapping this remix decks in first place. What I need is MASCHINE DECK sequencer. That would be awesome.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

      Or something similar, like “The Bridge.”

  • dougthinksthatslame

    Probably the most uncool thing ever, I’ve been drooling over the possibilities of creating new creative controller mappings for this on my vci and mpd, and now I’m bummed.

    If Native Instruments really wants to take away the only reason I chose it over serato I might as well drop them sell of my NI gear and move over to Serato. Since I already own Ableton bridge would be easy enough to set up.

    I’m probably going to give them about a month after the update before deciding on the switch

  • Stefan Jansen

    This is one update my servicecenter will show for long time… this totally sucks!

    I’m definitely going to take a look at HID protocol of NI… 

  • RockingClub

    CONCLUSION: The free Traktor Pro 2.5 update for all registered users is a BAD JOKE!

    You won’t be able to use it without spending additional amounts of money…

    • Michael_lawrence01

      Pretty angry about this as well not gonna lie. Been waiting like 2 months since they announced 2.5 and even though they posted this information online….I am just hearing about this now…the whole idea with midi is to do things with controllers they were not meant to do and by limiting the remix decks only to the F1; the flexibility and possibilities will be limited. I have the vestax pad one and it would be the perfect controller to map to the new decks to take advantage of all the additional slots and now all the hype for 2.5 is gone down the drain for me as this was the most exciting feature….not sure how everyone else feels about that
      I can see why they did that from a business standpoint however at the end of the day THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!! and if what the people want is the capability to map to any controller of their choice then NI better deliver!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

       Yes, I’d like to see about at least an upgrade path for the F1 and/or possibly starting a class-action lawsuit based on Native Instruments’ own software release policies, and a failure to inform the public that the policy of “total inclusion for all registered owners” changed. It might or might not be difficult to prove that Native Instruments relied on their reputation to sell a lot of units at a low price and then denied the long-term policy of implied expanded service to those owners without an additional purchase. If this is indeed true, this is by far, the WORST political misstep I’ve ever seen Native Instruments make.

    • http://twitter.com/RIP_KING Rifkizzle

      yup. Bought a Maschine too a few months ago with the intent of being able to remap for the remix decks.  Bought the Maschine instead of holding out for the F1 cause I wanted velocity sensitive pads and something usable for production as well as DJ’ing.  oh well! 

      • Sander Sebton

        I’m totally with you on this. It’s friggin despicable of NI to not even make the remix decks available to Maschine users. 

    • Max Flavour

      That is not true, I am sorry. You will get a better beat engine to find grids in tracks. Any update welcome here, because I was having a hard time gridding my tracks especially vinyl copies…

  • David

    the traktor community has always been kinda exclusive and cool…as most north american Djs are serato users….i really hope that this lockdown of the software doesnt kill traktor and force us controllerists to another software……f1 looks cool but the traktor software will undoubtedly change in the years to come and force more hardware change/mapping change.   WE DONT WANT TO BUY A NEW “IT” CONTROLLER EVERYTIME THE SOFTWARE CHANGES.   please allow us to map the remix decks with other midi controllers….NI will probably sell more f1s if they just left it as a cool niche instead of forcing the issue on creative djs………

    • ELVIS MOTHA FUCKEN PRESLY

      I will D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E-L-Y not purchase an f1 now.

      I already purchased the controller and other gear. Now you want me to dump out more cash? We don’t even get a lifetime warranty on our s2, after 2-3 years its going to be not working… What ever happened to great customer service? You all work like the chinese. Fix your goals in your COMPANY before you start going down hill. Are you even paying attention to all these pissed off NI users? We are fucking pissed. Give us lifetime warrantys on our software, our fucking s2 or s4. All of your equipment you put on a shelf for sale should come with a lifetime warranty and stop doing little bullshit stuff like this. Become a true fucking company that cares about the people not just $$$$$

      • Yuusou

        Lifetime warranty? Suuuuure. Yes, my very old printer is supported in Windows luckily because Windows is taking standard drivers to the next OS generation and seldomly sorts some of them
        out. But I doubt the printer works for Mac or Linux, because nobody really codes drivers for old printers.
        And now let’s take a look at Traktor 2.5: Yes the way they’ve presented their new product sucks. But NI has to think about money. If they wouldn’t make money, then they would either fire some employees or sell some of their product lines to the competitor. If NI is bankrupt, you would never have support EVER again – so lifetime warranty wouldn’t solve the problem. Some big German department store has been closed (which was actually unbelievable but true) and back then everyone was worried about their devices’ support. Luckily some company came up with a support plan for those devices. But this is pure luck and only because so many people have bought devices like laundry machines or dishwashers. Who cares about some DJs in the world? I mean, every fourth person owns a dishwasher or a laundry machine, but what about DJ equipment?My current favourite DAW is REAPER, constantly updated, feature requests are heard and implemented if they’re worth it. It’s a cheap price for personal use and you get free updates for the current and the next full version. You can assign any MIDI-CC to any so called action. It’s running on Windows, Mac OS and Linux. A Traktor-based program like this DAW would be awesome for any DJ. Who cares about the controller as long as it sends MIDI and the SW is capable to do what Traktor does and maybe even more? Now all you need is a company to create this program and set up a community to take care of the consumers. This is what I like about REAPER. You can get a free demo at Reaper.fm 

        And no I’m not getting paid for advertising this program.

  • mkr

    I’d rather they just charge for the upgrade and keep rmx decks open.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001945260195 Rg Tb

    Nothing to see here, move along.

    The forum posts did, in fact, not reveal anything new. This information has been available on NI’s webpage for at least 5 weeks (cf. for example the Traktor Kontrol F1 FAQ).

    I gotta say, it feels a bit funny that you release this article right at the same time you launch the Midifighter 3D..

    • http://twitter.com/protocollie late-model haterbot

      uh, yeah, they said specifically they are concerned about the midifighter 3d.

      not sure what the problem is? they’re not competing with them, they’re not trying to smear them, they feel left out and considering that DJTT have been involved in the development of traktor hardware before and are probably close with the traktor team, I’d be hurt and upset too if I spent a lot of time pioneering and innovating in the whole live performance and controllerism aspect of DJing only to find out that my company’s being left out of the rain in the biggest related development on the biggest platform for that purpose.

    • Michael_lawrence01

      obviosuly they are concerned about their product as mentioned….i think this is bull sh*t!!!!!!!!!!

  • sparsh chandan

    this is not particularly shocking. when details of the update first became official and NI claimed that the update was going to be “free” i was waiting for a catch to surface  and here it is! so basically the upgrade isn’t really free. 

    from a business stand point what they are doing is similar what many other (both in the dj world and outside) are doing. they want you to buy into an ecosystem. not just the software, not just one piece of hardware like the S4 or the X1 but the entire range. the whole point with Traktor was that you could map virtually anything to a high degree of functionality. this is now lost. 

    my question is whether or not this will become a trend with future upgrades. maybe they upgrade the track decks and the upgrades only function with NI hardware. 
    another question: if they are going down this path they need to make it so that the software is extremely stable. no glitches whatsoever. i find it hard to believe that this will be the case. 

    at this point i want some more information about what other functions of the program can the F1 control. additionally i want to know what non remix deck updates are part of this 2.5 package. 

    also while here. can anyone tell me why there is no 64bit version of traktor?

  • Anonymous

    Can open, worms everywhere.

    The problem with HID drivers is that they need to be kept up to date when computers move to new operating systems. With MIDI you can still control hardware from the 1970′s but HID drivers can be broken simply by a move to a 64-bit OS. This bit rot is going to force you to have to buy new controllers as the drivers fall out of order. There is no economic reason for them to support their hardware beyond it’s lifespan – driver updates are a cost with no benefits to them.
    Only Open Source drivers or USB-MIDI interfaces will survive the test of time. and if people like your device enough they’ll reverse the firmware and hack that (like the VCI-100 hacks). If companies aren’t going to use standard, open interfaces, we’ll just have to open them ourselves.

    • Ryan

      You can’t quite control hardware from the 1970′s with MIDI, which was standardized in the early 1980′s.  I suppose you can get a MIDI to CV converter though :)

    • Nothanks

      The funny thing is that this has nothing to do with HID drivers. If they gave that as the reason why they’re full of shit. 1: HID drivers are for highly accurate signals. A button’s signal is either “on” or “off”, with an additional number associated for velocity. 2: HID software could still _easily_ accept MIDI signals in place of HID for backward compatibility. This is an intentional decision to lock down software from being used how you (the person PAYING FOR IT) sees fit.

      Fuck that.

    • http://ax11.myopenid.com/ Tom AKA Cosmodrome

      Yes, absolutely. MIDI -if implemented correctly and in a complete way- still meets the needs of practically anything you want to do with a controller. Even the “MIDI is too slow for…” argument does not really count. (It’s some hardware interfaces speed, NOT a limitation of the MIDI protocol.) But still vendors come up with pointless, propretary, incompatible and poorly documented “transport protocols” and that’s where the trouble always begins! Look at #*$%!! VSTis and Program Change messages. Any MIDI compatible hardware device will handle this correctly. Now look how your favourite VSTi will screw up because of Steinbergs/your DAW vendors sick ideas of incompatible home brew standards- and of course Microsoft/Apple’s failure to implement MIDI on the operating system layer as the Linux community did. (It perfectly works, but they mostly screwed up RT audio – another story…)

  • Slak Jaw

    This is very disappointing indeed.  The limitations and challenges with customizing the Kontrol S4 is the reason I sold mine and replaced it with a Vestax VCI-400 EGE.  The S4 is a great controller, but to be truly creative I believe the hardware needs to flexible and customizable.  I’ve been a huge Traktor fan for years, but if this hardware/software lock down trend continues I will be hesitant to continue supporting NI.  I’m of the opinion that you if you do your homework and design an excellent product with innovative features people will want it.  The Kontrol F1 looks like a great controller and I don’t think NI needs to lock down the software to sell it.  This is a step in the wrong direction NI!  If you are really committed to pushing creativity in this industry don’t impose restrictions like this on your customers.

  • http://twitter.com/Jon6oy jon6oy

    This is a joke, right? I thought things were a bit too good to be true.

    I only bought a full version of TP2 a couple of months ago at the full price from NI site. Less than two weeks later they permanently slashed the cost of the software and sent me a 50 euro store voucher. It all makes sense now they have decided to lock down the sample decks. 

    I wanted to believe that this was a change for good and that NI had established itself enough to be in a position where they could make their software more affordable. 

    I’ve recently upgraded all my kit and am currently using a Vestax VCI-400SE along with an arsenal of Midi Fighters (Classic, Beatmasher and 3D) I chose this setup up as I felt that with the fast changing pace of software these days I wanted a set up that was future proof and could adapt to any changes for the foreseeable future. I felt that the S4 was not going to be able to keep up with all these changes and I’m starting to think I was right. 

    To all you S4 users out there- NI is the new Apple. Before long your S4 will require upgrading and you wont have a leg to stand on.

  • Rotebass

    We’re still crying about this? You’d almost think they were charging large sums of money just for the update. With the revisions made, they could have easily called this Traktor 3 and banged everybody for a license upgrade too, instead they are essentially giving the consumer a choice if they want to invest more money into their DJ rig, or keep the workflow they are accustomed to. Spilled milk people…

    • 970

       Do you understand the article and why people are mad buddy? The fact is that the new features *even if you invest $250 into an F1* are locked to the F1 meaning that you cant use a controller that is more suitable to your preferences (I was hoping to use a midi fighter). I wouldnt be pissed if there was a fee for the upgrade as long as we could use our own hardware…

      • http://www.djcrunchtime.com/ Dj Crunchtime

        EXACTLY!!!!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

       Actually, this is what’s known as “Bait and Switch” and it’s illegal in North America. You are not allowed to advertise that your product or service can do something, charge money for that product or service and then inform the customer that they need to spend more money to get what was the originally-claimed product or service. From what I see, there’s grounds for a Class-Action lawsuit (defined by 10 or more people as litigants in a case) to either change what they are offering to the original full-functionality that was advertised, or refund each legitimate owner and pay damages.
       

      • Rotebass

        I would love to see this go to court and then get thrown out, the sense of entitlement here is laughable. If you want Remix Decks, buy an F1. If you don’t want remix decks, be happy that you are getting a free upgrade.

        Want to know why the Remix Decks are locked to the F1?

        http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/CMD-DC-1.aspx 

        If you guys were to get your way, NI would be expected to give you guys 2.5 with the Remix Decks FOR FREE, then everybody could run out and buy this controller, or an APC20, etc, etc. Sample Grids are arguably the future of Digital DJing and NI was the first to the punch to release an elegant, all in one solution to meet that need (running Traktor with Ableton in the background is hardly a solution if you ask me). Why in the world would NI let everybody in on the pie that they just baked?

  • MrMeloD

    Unfortunate. This reminds me of early versions of Torq (to a lesser extent obviously) in which users had to have certain hardware in order to use the software. Serato Itch almost exactly mirrors that mindset of old Torq and we see where that got them. Companies better straighten out and realize that the software is the most important thing and that people will pay in order to get the workflow they desire. Not everyone wants to use YOUR hardware! This is definitely a step backwards.

  • Nicolas Caron Boucher

    I had hope that 2.5 would have allowed me to drop ableton from my set-up , now with this news, I’ll try out the bridge and maybe drop this evil NI product

  • Quine

    Unacceptable. Their reason for it (technical constraints) is totally bunk too. If they really make new software features that needlessly require new hardware, I will absolutely leave them for ableton.

    I was considering buying the F1 and absolutely will not now, out of principle.

  • B3NNY

    Already somewhat disgruntled w/ the quality of new NI products and customer service/tech support.  I think this might be a sign of more things to come, maybe now is a good time to start my slow gradual changeover to Serato (I have advanced HID support for CDJ2000′s to look forward to on the other side)

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CSBLN3D2F6L2FCRR3XCZWCZIJU Godzilla Jr.

      NI customer service is a joke. They’ve had my S4 for over a month now for warranty repair after promising that they’d send me a new one immediately after they received my broken one. It took them a full week just to send me a shipping label via email and then they didn’t cover expedited shipping as they had promised.  Every time I call them all I get is double speak and broken promises.

      I think NI has started the slide to the dark side. 

      • Anonymous

        It’s likely outsourced(repair/return logistics) If not, it could be a sign of financial trouble, which is not good if you enjoy the product.

        It’s weak sauce for sure… People depend on this equipment financially and that is a pricey kit to replace.

  • http://www.facebook.com/seville.lilly Seville Lilly

    Honestly, I hope the F1 flops. Maybe that would teach NI to concentrate on making Traktor better and better for DJs, instead of trying in vain to turn us into controllerists.

    • Anonymous

      If they spent their resources making sure $50 apc20′s will off Craigslist work… It probably would… And maybe take the company with it.

  • DJ Yuan

    this sucks!…im quite excited on purchasing the F1 and using it with the S4…but with this limitations..and i think they have killed the hype with this one….and now my contemplation is to buy the MF3D…

    Can this be mapped with the remix decks?…thanks! much love from Manila!

    • Aquin550

      this whole article is about how you can’t map ANYTHING to the remix decks…what article have you been reading?

      • Tragik11

         LOLOLOL

  • http://twitter.com/oc192 Scott Boutang

    It’s a shame that it won’t be mappable.  I hope they change their mind about that in the future.  The F1 is a good idea, but the price is high.  If they are going to lock us into this controller they should drop the price to $149 it would making buying two of them not so bad.  I wish they would unbundle them from the software.  I already have an S4 with Pro 2 that will get a free update to 2.5.  if you buy an F1 you get another license for 2.5, buy a second F1 and you get an additional license for 2.5.  I wish they would have an unbundled lower controller only price for the F1 for people that don’t need useless extra licenses.

    • RockingClub

      Probably that would decrease the flood of disappointed consumer reviews, I guess. I hoped to be able to map the basic remix deck function (being able to trigger 16 slots at once) on my MASCHINE controller. I also own an S4, so I spent almost 1500 bucks on NI products. And now I have to pay for that F1-software bundle? Again 250 bucks?! This is really impudent. I won’t go with the F1.
      CONCLUSION: THE FREE TRAKTOR PRO 2.5 FOR EVERY USER IS A JOKE!
      Won’t be able to use that!

      • Michael_lawrence01

        Agreed! I think what they are doing from their perspective is rationalizing and tightening up their assortment (hardware and software) HOWEVER they seem to have deviated away from the customization options that the different segments of NI consumers would explore given their existing set up!…i have the s2 and the maschine mikro and the mikro is screaming out to be mapped to the new remix decks!

  • BenNylegg

    I am disappointed.
    I’m not fussed by coloured pads, I just want a large surface area to mash and remix
    Ie maschine, mpc or MF….
    I did love this company but now I think they’re greedy mf’s

    • Michael_lawrence01

      agreed. I am really turned off by this!

  • Anonymous

    So they rewrite the midi standard so that non-NI midi isn’t valid, still call it midi, but don’t allow others to play?  They did the same thing with the S4 and it’s midi capability, and the traktor mappings to “HD” mode also.  Sounds like ITCH to me.  Guess I know what I’m doing this summer (switching software)

    • http://twitter.com/protocollie late-model haterbot

      with all due respect you seem to have such little grasp on what you’re talking about that you probably don’t have much of a right to be outraged.

      • Anonymous

        what is it that I have such a little grasp on that I don’t have a right to be outraged, do enlighten me… or with all due respect, stfu and troll elsewhere.

        • http://twitter.com/protocollie late-model haterbot

          i’m not trolling, your complaint belies an absolute lack of understanding of the specifications or why they would do something like this. the standard is referred to as ‘HID’, there’s significant and important reasons why HID is preferable over MIDI control (they are two very different standards with two very different sets of capabilities) and NI never rewrote the MIDI standard, they just switched to HID for devices that would benefit from the higher resolution. I also can’t really see the comparison to itch at this point in time being valid, that’s an extreme slippery slope there.

          There are negative tradeoffs to HID as well, things that obviously cause people with more creative configurations pain – the most obvious one being that both software and hardware need to be built to understand that protocol and the way it’s being used. This has the unfortunate effect of locking hardware to certain pieces of software that actively choose to support it. I’m not terribly surprised that since NI’s switched to an HID standard for some devices, those features aren’t making their way into the MIDI mapping right away. The reason they chose to USE HID was because MIDI wasn’t ideal for what they were trying to do anymore. This would be a perfectly valid explanation for why the feature’s not showing up in midi mapping.

          Building DJ gear around the HID standard has nothing to do with locking people into a platform and everything to do with the fact that HID offers higher resolution input and more flexibility than MIDI, which has some very, very strict limitations considering it was built for 70s-80s technology.

          • Anonymous

            MIDI, as a control signal similar to and doing the same job as HID and lumped together, sorry I didn’t differentiate.  I didn’t want to go into the details of the differences in specifications, or the capabilities or limitations of MIDI or “NHL” or whatever they are calling their proprietary HID standard, so for all intents and purposes, yes, same argument.  The dissecting of the different standards should be in some far off corner of a forum, not in a comments section.

            Where they are benefitting on resolution?  14-bit “HD” midi as it’s sometimes referred to is more than capable of being high enough resolution for anything needed inside of a controller.

            If HID is so great and flexible, even for the NI software they are using it with, why is it that their new awesome S4 and S2 have less functional capability in HID mode than in MIDI mode, with the exception of jog resolution?  Shouldn’t a new standard increase functionality, not decrease it?  And, HID for NI wasn’t about locking people into a platform, why don’t they release their HID specifications so that others can use it?  Sounds counter to your intuition.

            In fact, because of the update to this post, it has become very apparent that NI doesn’t need HID to implement the extra features because they plan on “maybe” incorporating the features to other midi devices.  However, if they couldn’t incorporate the features over MIDI, what would be the purpose of saying this… right there isn’t one, other than they want to sell a bunch of hardware.  

            OSC is not locked, and is a defined standard, BUT, it is free, so it won’t make you a shit ton of money off of using it.  Also, NI used OSC at one point, but got rid of it before traktor pro came out, which was also when they started developing their own line of controllers.

  • https://plus.google.com/112767041460502214504 Greg Miernicki

    This goes against the principle of Traktor ~ that being: every friggin bell, knob, and whistle in the software can be mapped with midi. What gives?! Did they reach the physical limit of the number of knobs that can be mapped in software or are have the project managers at NI run amuck?

    • http://twitter.com/protocollie late-model haterbot

      speaking as an engineer, there is no ‘limit’ in this context. so…

      • Beng

         For being so smart you don’t seem to grasp sarcasm

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

       Native Instruments is hiring for “Senior Product Manager TRAKTOR”… http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/specials/careers/

      • https://plus.google.com/112767041460502214504 Greg Miernicki

        Community backlash got one fired hopefully?! :D

  • Rdej47

    This is going to be a very interesting discussion. 

    As mentioned in the article what really made Traktor what it is today was it’s midi capabilities. This site was built out of pushing the limit of these capabilities. It is kind of sad to see them close off one of the most innovative tools they’ve ever made for Traktor. From a business point of view, it does make sense to keep it exclusive. They invested the time into developing both the hardware/software to make the remix decks possible, why shouldn’t they reap the rewards.

    However I still think they would have been okay if they keep the remix decks open. As of right now there isn’t anything like the F1 (Nothing with the wide range of RGB, page function, i’m speaking strictly for Traktor), the integration is very tight. This will change with time but really what your buying with the F1 is convenience. The convenience of having it work the moment you plug it in and working like it’s supposed to. 

    On the other hand if the remix decks were open one could map their own controller but given the huge functionality of the remix decks this would take a while and still might not give you the tight integration (RGB output of what is in each cell, what sample is playing etc.)

    This is why I think NI would have been fine if they kept the remix decks open. I’m willing to pay for that convenience of the F1. That it is the best solution for the remix decks, for now. I wouldn’t want to spend the time mapping all those functions even if they were available, because it still wouldn’t be as tight. 

    I think there is enough people on both sides that it would be a win/win. NI could sell F1′s to the people who want the plug and play simplicity of the F1, and then there will be people (like the one’s on this site) that create their own mappings that make you think outside the box.

    • Civ142000

      That’s the thing, you “CAN’T” map any other controller to it.

    • Science

      “From a business point of view, it does make sense to keep it exclusive. They invested the time into developing both the hardware/software to make the remix decks possible, why shouldn’t they reap the rewards.” You absolutely nailed it here… everyone has seen the NI staff recruitment and loves their products.. this stuff costs lots of money!, as a deep house DJ I will upgrade but probably never use the remix decks, but I can appreciate the creative possibilities for more performance based DJs and these DJs will see the potential and invest in the F1 to forward thier careers or artistic passion, moaning because you can’t map your random Numark controller to unlock the full functionality of 2.5 just makes people look cheap… plus it’s not like the F1 will break the bank.. show some support and buy one if you “need” this functionality.. but lets be honest, most of us don’t. Lets just enjoy the levels performance DJs will take this new toy to! 

  • erikt6

    still frustrated by how samples will get IN to those remix deck slots.  It still seems like a prep workflow and not a live workflow.  dragging with the mouse is simply too clumsy.  I will post a workflow ? in the forums.

    • https://plus.google.com/112767041460502214504 Greg Miernicki

      I guess you don’t know how the S4 works… you simply hit a button and the current loop playing in the deck above is copied into the sampler. What mouse action is required there?

      • padi_04

        ^This, and those commands are available to all controllers.

    • Anonymous

      as greg says… you’ll be able to load from the current active loop from a normal deck or the loop recorder or via the file browser. loading from the browser can be midi-automated since you can select a favorite, jump to the top and then scroll down to the point needed, parsing the track collection file to work out how far down to scroll. well at least that what i *was* going to do when i thought i’d have midi mapping goodnesss to the remix decks themselves :p

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

      I thought about that too… I’m using DJ Shiftee’s technique of using Modifiers on buttons and using the Shift+button press to load songs. Once the song is loaded, pressing the button becomes Play and Pause.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000157343617 David Generato

    WELL, THAT’S A FRIGGIN’ SHAME. DJTT TO THE RESCUEEEE!
     

  • Emery

    I wonder if the MF3D coming out has anything to do with NI locking the remix decks

    • Joey_daroo

      doubt it. the midi fighter is hardly even a threat to NI. Its a good idea, but in my opinion midi fighters aren’t big enough in the world yet be considered a real problem. but in pioneer or a really big company like that came out with a controller designed just for the remix decks with a cheaper price and more features then i could see them locking them up for use only with the f1.

      • bird fort

        hahaha pioneer coming out with something cheaper…

        • Tragik11

           LOL too ….

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1137292039 Ronald Edwards

      Unlikely, there are other controllers that pose more of a threat to N.I., the nanoPad, Pad One, the APC 20 and the Launchpad come to mind as well as the VCI-380 and the Twitch to a lesser extent.

  • Joey_daroo

    Now I dont know a whole lot about mappings and midi stuff but that either sounds like they are going to come out with a bunch of new controllers that take advantage of the remix decks or they are just trying out this new software idea for a while. It is only 2.5 so that means 3 isn’t far off, as far as im concerned. So unless they come out with a quick update that somehow allows the remix decks to be controlled be other controllers, im going to wait until 3 comes out and maybe get a new controller from NI because most of them just went on a huge sale.

  • Jaspermarsalis

    this is stupid… they are turning into serato. -_-

    • http://www.facebook.com/Dadblaster69 Will Hart

      Don’t say that! We love NA, give them a chance to change their mind!

    • DJ Bloodhound

      except serato is opening up more… the bridge was a good step. im still jelly of all the people that got into that. i feel like i shoulda went with the serato hype if NI is going to pull this crap.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rglassman1 Ryan Glassman

    Who wants to hack it?

    • Alex B.

      I’m going to do this. I’m sick and tired of this semi-closed system bulls**t. I’m putting together a group of me and my friends/classmates to reverse engineer the NHL protocol.

      • DjKurt

        Hack away good sir… Hack away

      • Anonymous

        Awesome… Traktor engineers may not at all complain.

      • http://twitter.com/DJTastyTreats DJ Tasty Treats

        Hit me up, I could help with this.

      • http://twitter.com/djbassbitz Farhan Tahir

        Let me know if i can be of any help

      • http://twitter.com/DJTastyTreats DJ Tasty Treats

        It just occurred to me that it would be pretty easy to sniff out the F1 USB data and write alternate midifighter firmware to emulate the F1. It would be a bit of a hack and only work on the midifighter or other open-firmware devices, but it would be pretty easy and you wouldn’t have to deal with the latency issues of a middle-man converter. One could even set a special button combination to switch between the firmware versions.

        If someone with an F1 could sniff the data be sure to release it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/PeteHoram Pete Horam

         I’ll be watching with a keen interest then.  Hope you manage to!

      • http://www.facebook.com/vincent.cox.12 Vincent Cox

        I have a solution.
        I can make in visual basic a program that runs in the background. When a key is pressed, the cursus press on a certain place in traktor.
        for example: when you press a key to play the second sample, the program will click automaticly on the play button of the 2nd sample
        Contact me for more info

    • Anonymous

      NHL *probably* isn’t too hard to work out – if u have the F1 and traktor just log the data being sent each way. you’d also need to create a virtual hid device that pretends to be an F1 – maybe harder… personally i think i’ll just jump ship to something more open like VDJ or Mixxx. i’m already routing audio from traktor into ableton to have decent control of effects.

      • Alex B.

        Thats what I was thinking, there may also be a file similar to a TSI for NHL, which would bypass the need to pretend to be an F1, wouldn’t be too bad anyhow, as they do have a good deal of controls which could be mapped, but it is probably limited.

      • Anonymous

        LOL… Bullshit. Of course, since there’s very little going on in VDJ… You won’t have to worry about being locked out of anything.

        Honestly,thinking it through… if you are using ableton then maybe pair with mixxx, just for traditional decks, isn’t a terrible idea. I don’t use ableton so I’m not sure how well bpm synced fx work with live inputs lacking a grid. Seeing as how clip launching is going to still be better in ableton anyway I would say viable alternative.

      • http://twitter.com/DJTastyTreats DJ Tasty Treats

        I figured the same about the virtual HID device. The problem is that it would probably introduce some latency, which might be an issue. I wonder if it’s feasible to create a patch for Traktor itself by reverse engineering the config files.

    • Michael_lawrence01

      agreed!

    • DJ Bloodhound

      well, think of it like this, do something like bomes, and make it impersonate the F1, so traktor thinks an f1 is plugged in. translate all the data from other controllers into the converter application.

      sounds easier than it would be to actually accomplish i bet though :/

    • http://www.facebook.com/vincent.cox.12 Vincent Cox

       I have a solution to this (see my comment)

    • M1RFace
    • http://www.facebook.com/vincent.cox.12 Vincent Cox

       here is the solution i made.
      you can use EVERY controller that you want.