Two Brand New Ways of Scratching Wirelessly

Written by Ean Golden on May 15th, 2011 41 Comments

Several videos have popped up on the internet this week that each explore an interesting concept for using a standard turntable as a wireless controller. One creative gent from Stanford managed to use iPod Touches as controllers, while another inventive DJ has built a wireless turntable head-shell. Each video is a decent proof of concept, but neither has quite convinced us that they have much of a future in the professional DJ world yet. Check out our thoughts on the videos after the break and decide for yourself.

IPHONE CONTROL

Epic Potential:

Watching the waveform position on the turntable
Reliable position tracking without analogue failure points
Works on any platter

Potential Pitfalls:

2 iPhones?
Latency?
iPhones flying off into the crowd

Net Potential: Next Generation Control?

WIRELESS NEEDLES

Epic Potential:

Turn turntables into easily accessible wireless inputs
Totally wireless solution

Potential Pitfalls:

Round trip latency
Audio Quality
Head-shells picking up a wireless phone conversation of some drunk guy yelling “I’m right here, can you see me!?!?” for 10 minutes straight.

Net Potential Score: Ultra Convenient Audio?

WALKING IN THE AIR..?

DJ Tech Tools loves the creative use of technology, and we really love when we see people pushing technology to fill a need they’ve recognized. Leon Codrington, the inventor of the wireless headshell prototype, tells us a little about his credentials: “I’ve been a DJ for about 20 years now, and for five years I worked at a store called Guildford Sound and Light [in England] before going into a technical role in film and TV”.

START SIMPLE… GET SIMPLER

On the gestation of the idea: “initially I had an idea for an MP3 player that was a record, so you’d put the record on the deck and the needle on the special record and it’d imitate vinyl that way. I mulled it over for a while but it’s near impossible to do because of the sheer number of moving parts and the complexity of it, and the idea kind of evolved from there, I thought why not simplify it and have the headshell wireless…”

As far as the wireless technology involved, Leon told us: “The current prototype consists of a headshell with a Bluetooth module soldered on to it. The Mark 2 will probably be WiFi because it offers better performance, better bandwidth”. Indeed, our poking around confirms Leon’s findings, and it seems there’s just no way that a Bluetooth connection can get anything close to an acceptable latency. Leon tells us “You can cut latency down, with Bluetooth 3 you can look at establishing the connection via Bluetooth but handing it over to WiFi so it’s kind of half and half with the security and ease of connection of Bluetooth and then the bandwidth and latency of WiFi”, which sounds interesting – indeed according to Bryan and Wang of Mopho’s tests, one way network latency time of 3-5ms is achievable with WiFi. This is definitely a workable figure – it’s not really a great number to start with if we’re to start talking round trips, but it definitely works as a starting point – especially when considering that processing time for an audio signal adds on over a millisecond each way in any case. Indeed, MIDI over WiFi has been a workable solution for some time.

BIG ISSUE

Of course, being a mark one prototype things are a long way from resembling a finished product. We asked about issues he’s already foreseen: “things like the size of the unit, weight of the unit, maximising battery life… Things like the preamps, something like the ones in the new Serato boxes are absolutely spot on, but there’s no way you can do anything like that linked to the headshell unless you want a counterweight the size of a tennis ball!”

Leon’s got ideas for more than just wax, too, “I love vinyl, but I’m just one dude… what I’d love to see is wireless capability built into a CDJ so a DJ can just walk up to it, flip a switch and be able to harness all the power of their laptop or tablet”.

The wireless headshell concept allows for audio to get sent back to the turntable, in theory totally eliminating the need to run audio cables from the computer to the mixer. In theory you could even pipe your main Traktor output through a turntable for the ultimate in cable free ease in the club. The issue we think the idea will have the most difficulty finding a solution to is getting that audio quality to a professional standard whilst working with the small amount of space on the headshell.

SOLE CONTROL

The Mopho, conversely, simply turns your turntable into a controller. The combination of gyroscope and accelerometer sensors in a device allow its speed and motion to be tracked quite accurately across three dimensions; if you connect them to a turntable you can digitise the turntable platter’s movement.

The latest generation of iPhones and iPods, as used in Bryan and Wang’s concept, have a 100Hz sample rate on their sensors. This level of accuracy means that if we move the record forward four times faster than a 33 1/3rpm playing speed, we get 8 degrees around for every time it’s registered to have even moved at all, thus accuracy of sound which isn’t good enough for practical use, but then the idea is very much still on the drawing board.

Using the iPod’s gyroscope and accelerometer is a really neat idea, though, and potentially it’s one that could be extrapolated to a dedicated device – something small and innocuous that sticks to a record label, allowing you to use a genuine vinyl and cartridge setup for a more realistic feel, or indeed the ability to stick it to any platter – from CDJ to spinning plate… or even built into a control vinyl, neatly sidestepping any set up or DVS wires.

So, DJ Tech Tools community, does one idea strike you as the way forward? Both of them have their merits? …or do neither really grab your attention? One thing’s for sure and that’s that both concepts are a long way from a market ready solution just yet, but your input might help to shape the Next Big Thing…

Filed under: DJ Controllers, DJ Equipment / Accessories, and tagged control, headshell, Iphone, needle, Scratch, serato, wire less, wireless scratching.

http://www.djpc3.com DJ PC3

I saw these on Engagdet & SkratchWorx (respectively) and was really impressed by both idea… I may never us either or even be all that useful, but pure creativity of these guys is truly impressive.

Sidenote: I do hope we will be able to get away from software-specific sound-cards (Ranes & Audio #s) or certified mixers. Because I agree, this whole process is really a bummer and super time consuming and stressful when set-up on the at a gig AND ESPECIALLY during transitions!
Jessevdriel

Okay, now that’s really cool.
Harry Patrick

typo alert “No lets see the new version of traktor do that!”No lets see the new version of traktor do that!”
Anonymous

I think DjTechtools should create and integrate with midi-fighter one big jogwheel to scratch right next to the buttons of the midi-fighter will be one awesome controller and revolutionary on the market.
Lbc4ever

I hear you. Perhaps you’d be kind enough to post a review of the product nearer to launch?
Santielenaiscool

than you have always to worry about not putting your hands on the phone… they should start with that and do a round 12″ ipad, that will be cool…
http://spencerthayer.tumblr.com Spencer “Thunderball” Thayer

I doubt we’ll ever see either of these being used by Serato or Traktor. Maybe Abelton, Torq or other software whose business model isn’t to force the consumer to purchase outrageously expensive hardware.
Anonymous

It’s saddening to see so much creative effort by academic researchers into a format that has to die. And just the basic misunderstanding of latency and practical needs of a DJ that could be so simply answered by just asking one! Outsiders take one look at the turntables and think “Oh, I get that”.

Clue: It’s not the turntables. It’s the *music*…
Djdraco

Wireless headshell is on point, if there were only another way aside from Bluetooth, the transfer speed blows. Maybe if it were one way, send the TC signal to the computer. Then you factor out the RCA’s from the table and factor out the sound card in’s. Dunno. Just a thought.
tisba

If scratching won´t die, turntables won´t die.
Franki

Anytype of wireless tech like this…can and will be hacked while gig’n. you might ask why would someone do that….because they can.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jerrard-Beasley/1307384346 Jerrard Beasley

The wireless headshell is on point. Any manufacturer that would develop this will make sure that any finished product is balanced so I don’t see that as a problem. The latency could be a problem that would have to be worked out. The issue of the wireless signal being hacked is simple to fix…when you first start the system have the headshell and system sync up and create a random encryption sequence that only the headshell and computer knows…if you want to make it even stronger, then have it change the encryption randomly….that way a hacker can’t break the encryption because it will change before they can crack it.
Brandon Lucas

Let’s say that NI or Rane/Serato decides that the wireless needles are a good idea. Let’s say that they fix the interference and latency issue. Let’s say the wireless needles are able to offer a clean scope on the timecode signal. For old school turntablists like myself, I would be more than willing to try this. Hell, it may boost turntable sales – not enough to have Technics resurrect their 1200 manufacturing from the dead – but have some DJs take an interest in using timecoded vinyl more.

When I scratched for a rock band last year, my other bandmates would get frustrated with me because it took me too long to wire my gear. They would plug in a mic, tune their guitar, turn on a couple amps and were ready to go. Meanwhile I’d be behind my decks fumbling with wiring to the point where sometimes they would start playing the song set without me. It SUCKED. If I had something like this at the time, I might not have pissed them off as often. =/

Bottom line is, there likely will be some company that uses this wireless needle thing and goes public with it within the next 2 years. I am curious to see where this leads.
Brandon Lucas

DJ Draco…I like where your head is at.

I have seen wireless USB transmitters and receivers. Mostly these are used by Audio Visual pros when running a wire from a laptop to a projector is too long. They typically come USB to VGA. If he used a dual wireless USB setup similar to this (one for each needle on each deck) that may fix the transfer rate issue.

http://www.iogear.com/product/GUW2015VKIT/
http://djjonglover.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/concepts-for-dj-tech-nerds/ Concepts for DJ tech nerds « Jon Glover

[...] http://www.djtechtools.com/2011/05/15/2-brand-new-ways-of-scratching-wirelessly [...]
http://dadizajn.net Tomislav Simi? ToS

And NI removed OSC from Traktor4….. saddening.
WillBlaze

I think if these 2 technologies were merged a finished product could be brought to market fairly quickly. Take the gyro/accelerometer and place them on a small tab to attach to ANY vinyl for control of record movement. Add a sensor in the headshell to track the position of the stylus………DONE! These guys should DEFINITELY get together SOON.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Grant-Reynolds/748309866 Grant Reynolds

i wish scratching would Die, its a horrid effect at best that alot of Dj’s use to cover up there inability to beatmatch rnb/hip hop.
I.B.M.K

Umm… This is kinda behind the times fellas… There is already products in the market that allows this….

With no Latency, And No loss of audio quality.. Sometimes you guys feel the need to re-invent the wheel, when it’s far from needed. I’ve been playing live with TRAKTOR Patched into ABLETON LIVE 8 like this for the past year and half..

I will post a video link soon showing how this can be done Via Time-coded Vinyl’s or CD’s or ANY Ipod touch, Iphone, IPAD…

And, I can walk off to the toilets, drain the main vein and hear my next mix wirelessly too… You should not feel locked into the booth anymore..

There’s always more the story guys, dig a bit deeper next time..

If Tesla had been able to bring things the table, we would all be on the wireless electricity revolution by now too…. Damn Repressive Greedy Politicians!!!

All round happy to see people coming together with these ideas, so much amazing stuff coming out the last year…
G. Reynolds Little World

The “lot of dj’s” you refer to are probably the only dj’s that you’re exposed to, because there are plenty of scratch dj’s that can beat match better than others that ONLY have mixing as their arsenal. (ex. the beat junkies, a-trak, craze, z-trip, dj premier). you should get our more often. too bad buddy. scratching won’t die.
DdPrz

The “lot of dj’s” you refer to are probably the only dj’s that you’re
exposed to, because there are plenty of scratch dj’s that can beat match
better than others that ONLY have mixing as their arsenal. (ex. the
beat junkies, a-trak, craze, z-trip, dj premier). you should get our
more often. too bad buddy. scratching won’t die.
cabdoctor

Just a thought,

What about transmitting on the 2.4ghz band? i know with radio controlled airplanes and cars you have a transmitter and receiver each with their own unique identifiers that you “bind” together via theirs software. Theres almost no chance of disruption, and if there is it goes in to a failsafe setting. Using this method you could circumvent the security issues of wi-fi and you could set a fail-safe that would send a 33rpm signal. The only con of this is you would need a usb 2.4 ghz dongle of sorts. But the good news is you can get all the parts from Sparkfun.
cabdoctor

Also a thought for the Gyroscope/Accelerometer method. Build it into a puck that sits over the spindle andon the record. Make it have rechargeable li-po batteries and transmit wirelessly to a receiver/computer. You could probably make one thats pretty light and with a grip surface on the bottom so it doesn’t skip.
Siytek

If a solution that sat between the needle and tonearm was available, I would buy it (at the right price of course :) …!

Round trip latencyMicrowaves travel at the speed of light so with the correct implementation, I believe the same latency as existing wired solutions could be achieved. Using a custom protocol rather than existing WiFi solution for networking I believe would be the way forward with this. USB-Stick type device ~~> wireless needles.Audio Quality96Khz 24-bit = 2,304,000bps = about 2.2Mbps per mono channel or 4.4Mbps for stereo (per headshell), a no go for BT 2.0 but well within the limit of WiFi speeds. RIAA pre-amp would be used in the mixer as audio is routed via existing turntable to mixer connection, RIAA ‘simulation’ could possibly be achieved by digitally simulating the RIAA EQ curve on the MCU before the audio data hits the analog stage, and using a suitable VRef on the DAC to simulate RIAA voltage level.Head-shells picking up a wireless phone conversation of some drunk guy yelling “I’m right here, can you see me!?!?” for 10 minutes straight.Lol, just not going to happen with digital wireless connection. There may be a problem with 1000+ mobile phones on the dancefloor in a big club causing interference and the loss of packets of data, but the digital connection could ensure security (in the way that some peeps have already mentioned, encryption etc…) and the laptop will most likely be very close and clear line of sight from the turntables giving the optimum chance of a healthy signal.Im going to find wiring up my DVS at gigs more of a ball-ache than ever now! lol I would love to see a wireless solution soon!
Rich Moog

The pick is an awesome answer to the iPhone scenario! Well thought my good man… I love this community, creative in so many ways!
Lbc4ever

I don’t see it “Dying”.. It will just evolve beyond recognition.
Jasonmd2020

Easy fix for the Mopho to keep the iPhones from flying is to make a platter with a built cradle to snap the phone into place & hold it.
Jasonmd2020

Another thought…Instead of iPhones, why not use Wii controllers? Much cheaper.
Soh G

wot just like an xbox controller? Yeap thot so
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001138444109 Mutis Mayfield

xD
Calgar C

lol epic ipod tables :D not a big fan of wireless cuz of the bees and all but awesome
Djteeoh

How would a wireless needle be incorporated with Serato or Traktor? As it looks in the video, there is no traktor or serato module being used. So is it a new software? And if so, how will it compare to the 2 top names? And whenever this product becomes available, djs would still have to take there laptop/tablet. How else will we see the music we are loading? How else will we navigate the software? This seems like a good idea, but where would you computer/tablet be? The farther away it is the more lag it will have. Seems to me that either way, djs will still have to tote a computer and DVS system around. Unless there is away to magically see the computer screen or tablet when its not in the booth, then this wont work. And if it is just to be wireless, then how will it work with the existing DVS’ systems? Bottomline, there are alot of holes in the logic. While the idea and innovation is awesome, the theology is lacking. Just one more expensive piece of gear to lug around. Show me how i can dj wirelessly without a serato or traktor box and without having a laptop in front of me, and i’ll buy into it.
Djteeoh

How would a wireless needle be incorporated with Serato or Traktor? As it looks in the video, there is no traktor or serato module being used. So is it a new software? And if so, how will it compare to the 2 top names? And whenever this product becomes available, djs would still have to take there laptop/tablet. How else will we see the music we are loading? How else will we navigate the software? This seems like a good idea, but where would you computer/tablet be? The farther away it is the more lag it will have. Seems to me that either way, djs will still have to tote a computer and DVS system around. Unless there is away to magically see the computer screen or tablet when its not in the booth, then this wont work. And if it is just to be wireless, then how will it work with the existing DVS’ systems? Bottomline, there are alot of holes in the logic. While the idea and innovation is awesome, the theology is lacking. Just one more expensive piece of gear to lug around. Show me how i can dj wirelessly without a serato or traktor box and without having a laptop in front of me, and i’ll buy into it.
Djteeoh

I think what would be more productive is to get with Serato and Traktor to produce a wireless interface. One that plugs into the mixer but is wireless to a computer. And what would make things sooo much better is if Rane made a mixer that had powered out puts. Specifically to power a serato box and mac or pc. Think about it. Your mixer plugs into a regular plug….the serato box plugs into the mixer, and your computer plugs into the DVS just like normal. BUT now those regular cords now provide power. You just eliminated all the extra cords. Your computer draws power from the dvs module instead of vice versa, and djs dont have to worry about forgetting their power cords! Plus, this keeps constant power to the SL module. And with the SL4, this provides power without another power adapter. Lastly, to round out this topic….. what about plugging turntables into a mixer? Power ports on a mixer just for your turntables. Saves all those cords out in the way. Especially with old school TTs, you could just tuck them underneath. I think it would be great to avoid plugging in 2 tables, a mixer, and a laptop. The less wires the better.
Djteeoh

I think what would be more productive is to get with Serato and Traktor to produce a wireless interface. One that plugs into the mixer but is wireless to a computer. And what would make things sooo much better is if Rane made a mixer that had powered out puts. Specifically to power a serato box and mac or pc. Think about it. Your mixer plugs into a regular plug….the serato box plugs into the mixer, and your computer plugs into the DVS just like normal. BUT now those regular cords now provide power. You just eliminated all the extra cords. Your computer draws power from the dvs module instead of vice versa, and djs dont have to worry about forgetting their power cords! Plus, this keeps constant power to the SL module. And with the SL4, this provides power without another power adapter. Lastly, to round out this topic….. what about plugging turntables into a mixer? Power ports on a mixer just for your turntables. Saves all those cords out in the way. Especially with old school TTs, you could just tuck them underneath. I think it would be great to avoid plugging in 2 tables, a mixer, and a laptop. The less wires the better.
I.B.M.K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZx_WA1TAI

Here is what I Spoke about above if anyone still cares enough to read this thread, only finally got around to it tonight..
I.B.M.K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZx_WA1TAI

Here is what I Spoke about above if anyone still cares enough to read this thread, only finally got around to it tonight..
I.B.M.K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZx_WA1TAI

Check how I do it.. Replied to my own comment, thought it may get missed so re-posted. Let me know if you want to know more.
I.B.M.K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZx_WA1TAI

Check how I do it.. Replied to my own comment, thought it may get missed so re-posted. Let me know if you want to know more.
http://www.funkyhousemusic.com/2011/05/29/dj-techtools-two-brand-new-ways-to-scratch-wirelessly/ DJ TechTools – Two Brand New Ways To Scratch Wirelessly | Funky House Music | FHMDC

[...] News Article: DJ TechTools – Two Brand New Ways To Scratch Wirelessly [...]
http://twitter.com/MOYMA MOYMA

the MOPHO could be a cool idea if they found another display and control other than having iphones on the platters…and the needle make sense…basically anything than can save the setup time and hassle. But what sort of price would this be..?