Understanding Max 4 Live

Written by BentoSan on May 2nd, 2010 674 Comments

logo_max_4_live_cropped

In November 2009 Cycling 74 and Ableton dropped a bombshell on the public known as Max for Live. This is possibly one of the biggest leaps in music software technology  we have seen in a while. Max for live fuses together the worlds of commercial grade music software (Ableton) with a commercial grade visual/programming software(Max/Msp). This fusion leads to something that is much more than the sum of the parts. While Max for Live is not exactly the latest news, we are finding many djs dont understand what Max for Live is and how they could use it. In this article we will be looking at what Max For Live (M4L) will allow djs to accomplish and what new possibilities may be in store for those that explore this exciting new world.

BASICS

Everyone at this stage is probably well aware of what Ableton is and has at least half an idea of what it is capable of. Ableton was never designed for djing but that has not stopped many people from trying to make it work anyway. While this may lead to many things that you couldn’t do in any program or dj deck, it also meant that even some of the most basic things that Dj’s are used to just are not in the software (like track friendly browsing). M4L provides the opportunity to fill in those gaps and make Ableton the Dj friendly software you wish it was.

To understand how M4L makes this possible we need to understand just what this bridge brings the table. While a lot of users know about Ableton there are significantly less known about M4L so lets first look at that part before diving into the integration.

Max / MSP / Jitter -

Max Msp is a fully featured visual programming environment created by Cycling 74. Max was created back in the 1980′s and  has had a very long time to evolve into the powerhouse that it is today. It bears many similarities to other visual programing environments  that you might have encountered including Native Instruments Reaktor and the open source alternative known as Pure Data – however it should be noted that all of these programs are still unique in their own ways.

BentoSans 3 Band EQ (in development) + Hp/Lp Hybrid Filter - shown in patching mode

A visual programming environment is just that, an environment where you insert objects and connect them together in a very visual way. This is opposed to a text based programming environment where the program is created by typing the commands into an engine. As you can see in the picture above, the lines connecting everything together are known as “patch cords”, some of these carry data (black) and some carry audio (green and black) and some patch cords(not shown) are even capable of carrying a video stream! These patch cords are attached to “Objects”, which come in all shapes and sizes and are used for all manor of different things including processing audio, processing video and processing data that is used to control the audio and video.

This graphical interface leads to a very open environment where your imagination is the only limitation, especially if you consider you can build your own objects using the Max/Msp/Jitter SDK (however this is where a more traditional programing knowledge is needed). The software does come with over 600 objects and many more are available for over the internet as paid and free extensions.

What you do with all these objects can range from very simple to very complex.  You could for instance make your own fully featured DJ software that includes full video support !

What Max brings Ableton

 

 

 

Free Buffler Shuffler effect that comes with M4L

On the surface it just looks like M4L provides the ability to create your own plug-ins inside of Ableton and host them like a regular Ableton effects. In fact, loading a Max patch in side of Ableton was previously possible using Pluggo. Your probably wondering, what makes M4L so special?

The answer to this lies in the “Live API” which gives Max/Msp/Jitter the ability to attain feedback and to control elements in Ableton. Virtually everything that you can see with your eyes and can control with your mouse inside of Ableton can be seen and controlled by M4L. So for instance functions that were not midi mappable in Ableton live suddenly become midi mappable and those functions that were previously midi mappable can be controlled in new ways that Abletons midi mapping never catered for. One Example would be the ability to move the play head inside a loop using a controller instead of having to use your mouse.

A great example of just how far the integration between Max, Ableton and your controller is demonstrated here with the Jazz Mutant Lemur -

In this instance M4L is providing the method of communication between Ableton and the lemur which allows the functions to go far far beyond that what could be done with a simple midi map. The results speak for themselves- fully integrated, amazing dj interfaces.

Something for everyone


To get you started there are a large number of  effects and instruments to get you going without any programming required, in fact for $300 US all of the plug-ins that you get are arguably worth more than what you pay for the software. There’s is also a ever increasing amount of user patches that people share for free (and a few you have to pay for too). This means an endless supply of more stuff to play with that is provided by a community of users- not software engineers.

For the users that like to get their hands dirty M4L has a very extensive list of tutorials that will take you from a complete newbie to a Max veteran.  The help files are high quality, and for every object there is a fully functioning max msp patch that shows you how to use the object only a couple of clicks away. Just right click on the object and click ”Open ‘objectname’ help”, a new max patch will pop-up that explains the construction. These are the best and most interactive help files we have ever seen in any program period.

Whats the catch?

There are a few things to be aware of when purchasing and dealing with M4L.

  • You must own Ableton 8 to be able to use M4L as it is incompatible with any other version of live prior to Ableton v8.1.
  • M4L costs $299 and does not come with Ableton 8, it is a separate purchase.
  • Previous Max owners who also own Ableton 8 are able to purchase M4L for a reduced price of $99.
  • Purchasing M4L does not mean you can run Max/Msp/Jitter as a stand alone, you will be restricted to using Max inside of Ableton.

On the technical side of things there are a few things most digital dj software features that are not possible in M4L. Examples would be that it is impossible to “scratch” a live clip or the master arrangement (Serato’s “bridge” can do the later of these two). However, as has been proven with a MsPinky patch, you can make it “feel” like you are doing such things without actually physically doing it.

Djing in M4L


The MsPinky patch has been of particular interest over in the  DJTT forums and is a great example of some of the things that M4L has made possible. MsPinky is a commercial grade DVS solution that is used in a number of different creative situations where Vinyl control is desired, however the MsPinky Patch is open source allowing for open source feel approach to a piece of commercial software. There is actually a MsPinky object in Max that allows you to use digital vinyl to control anything of your choosing. The MsPinky M4L patch out at the moment will load a highlighted clip  into its buffer and then allow you to scratch with it – this gives the feeling that your using DVS to scratch Ableton clips.

Not the best example, but currently the only decent one out there is this video which shows the ability to feel like your scratching audio clips in a very Ammoboxesque way in Ableton:



Filed under: DJ Software, and tagged , , .

  • http://dabeat.ru kayf

    Max4Live 4 live!

  • Patch

    Great write-up, Bento! Looking forward to being able to take a look at YOUR M4L Pinky device! ;-)

  • http://bangthedj.com/ Bang the DJ

    Nice work. Like many I have seen some videos online, or read features about M4L, but this is a good piece that puts it into context for many wondedring how/why they might need it.

  • Mudo

    …

    At last! Thanks Bento!

    :)

    …

  • http://none Kilown

    this is a great thing to see. i am not much into the ableton but willing to read and understand what is really going to improve what is always going to be the next step in DJ history

  • http://www.djtechtools.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11964 Double DutchDj

    Nice to have some Techtools esq light shed on max 4 live, been wondering what all the hype was about. Seems a little out of my technical league, but more heads around the world working on programs like max 4 live means more interesting open minded plugins/apps, good times ahead.

  • Vinicius Hoffmann

    Finally Bento!
    I was waiting for your article about M4L!
    It’s a very interesting option for Programming Geeks like me :)
    Thanks for writing up!

  • Eastcoastams

    Well done Bento! Been waiting for something like this for awhile as I am new to the whole production thing, awesome aricle.

  • http://www.myspace/fwprojekt FWProjekt

    Currently started to work with Live and Mu ( the Lemur interface for M4L )
    It’s absolutely outstanding !!!!

    Was using Traktor since early 2005, and had many great mixing pleasure with it and my Lemur, but seriously considering switching to Live.

    It’s the most incredible dj’ing experience i ever had.

  • JuanSOLO

    I finally got Ms Pinky working in a way that has me selling my Traktor Scratch Pro. It’s not perfect but it will be! AND it will only get better. When Live finally give access to scratching clips, thing will be over the top.

    Bento make the point in his article that you can control pretty much anything you can see in Ableton, and some things you can’t, using M4L. Although this is very true there are some noticeable limitations to it as well. However I imagine when Live and M4L gets a major update, there will be much more access and new features. SUPER EXCITING STUFF!!!

    M4L has given me the ability to control software and get the most out of my hardware. In other words the price spent on M4L increased the value of anything I had purchased previously.

    @Bento, you should really release your Pinky patch on the forums over there, no matter what condition it’s in! And thanks for the EQ3!!!

  • Mudo

    …

    +1

    …

  • http://djnsm.com/?ref=djtt DJ Not So Much

    Here’s some critical info on M4l – doubles your Ableton load time, test and test all patches. Most (IMHO) are so far from live performance ready it hurts…

    There are a few “factions” out there who do well, monome.org is the leader (again IMHO).

    My standards are rather high for software. M4L has some time required to mature. Move slowly – the APIs are still very young.

  • http://Offbeatfuckyeah.com Offbeat

    My first digital DJ setup was the Ms. Pinky software. But even that was to complicated to really understand. Now I’ve started to get the hang on Ableton Live for remixing and producing my own music. (But not DJing, for that I use Traktor, the X1 controller and control vinyls.)
    The combining of MAX and Ableton doesn’t feel like much of a DJ tool. Maybe I have to read up on it a bit more, but my guess is that this will only divide the gap between those still djing with cd’s and vinyl and the strictly controller DJ’s.
    Bad or good? I don’t know!

  • I AM URBSTAR

    BIg ups to bringing Ableton LIVE into DJTechTools. I use traktor and ableton in realtime for my sets. The addition of using monmoe step sequencer patches to contol traktor cue points juggles is the shit. If DJ techTools Needs a Ableton tutorial Guy hit me up…Im in the Bay…. how About Ableton Tech tuesdays!

  • MiL0

    liking the pinky video… shame there isn’t max4traktor!

  • Haze324

    [quote comment="30055"]BIg ups to bringing Ableton LIVE into DJTechTools. I use traktor and ableton in realtime for my sets. The addition of using monmoe step sequencer patches to contol traktor cue points juggles is the shit. If DJ techTools Needs a Ableton tutorial Guy hit me up…Im in the Bay….

    how About Ableton Tech tuesdays![/quote]

    I vote yes. When it comes to ableton I am as lost as it gets. Just trying to find good info to know where to start is confusing, let alone trying to master traktor at the same time. Ableton Tech Tuesdays. +1

  • I AM URBSTAR

    The masses have spoken. Well one person….Wassup Ean!!!!!!!! I might be what DJ TECHTOOLS is looking for.

  • LoveRocket

    Still trying to understand what and why? You want to scratch ? SERATO. You want to DJ and mix ? TRAKTOR. You want to produce ? ABLETON or Pro Tools, LOGIC, etc. I read this article I see the videos and all that I absorb is bad music and a lot of complications. This is not good for DJing. This is making DJ’s look at a screen and ignore the crowd for hours. Do your remixing at home and bring it on game day. Sick of this BS crap.

  • I AM URBSTAR

    [quote post="5484"]LoveRocket
    May 3rd, 2010 at 6:30 pm Quote
    Still trying to understand what and why? You want to scratch ? SERATO. You want to DJ and mix ? TRAKTOR. You want to produce ? ABLETON or Pro Tools, LOGIC, etc. I read this article I see the videos and all that I absorb is bad music and a lot of complications. This is not good for DJing. This is making DJ’s look at a screen and ignore the crowd for hours. Do your remixing at home and bring it on game day. Sick of this BS crap.[/quote]

    Well if you remember the days when you just mixed 2 tables and a 2ch mixer…then it became 4 cd decks…then DvS’s..its a progression of the art. Its not the tools you use it how you use “your” tools. People come for the MUSIC . I see alot of Serato/Traktor Dj staring at the screen 100% of their set. Using Ableton in a live setting done correctly has its place. iIs the same debate of 2 decks versus 4 decks. How much of the sound that the audience hears do you actually intend on manipulating in real time Or do you download the top 10 bitt torent mixes and use a ipod DJ mixer. That is the difference between a electronic musician and a electronic DJ. The gap between the two are becoming smaller as the stability of software and artists creativity expand. Simple

  • http://www.myspace.com/bentosan BentoSan

    [quote comment="30055"]BIg ups to bringing Ableton LIVE into DJTechTools. I use traktor and ableton in realtime for my sets. The addition of using monmoe step sequencer patches to contol traktor cue points juggles is the shit. If DJ techTools Needs a Ableton tutorial Guy hit me up…Im in the Bay….

    how About Ableton Tech tuesdays![/quote]

    Sure, check out this page here – http://www.djtechtools.com/about/want-to-write-for-techtools/ We are always happy to have more writers on board :)

    [quote comment="30054"]The combining of MAX and Ableton doesn’t feel like much of a DJ tool. Maybe I have to read up on it a bit more, but my guess is that this will only divide the gap between those still djing with cd’s and vinyl and the strictly controller DJ’s.
    Bad or good? I don’t know![/quote]

    It does not feel like a DJ tool out of the box but with some work it has the potential of singlehandedly becoming the most powerful DJ tool ever because of its unparalleled level of possible customizations. Best part is that we have already started working on the customizations and plan to share them here on DJTT. Its going to take a lot of hard work and persistence but you will find more and more m4l patches come out over time until the point we have a fully fledged djing solution for M4L that will eventually sum up to be the most powerful DJ tool available to date :)

  • Anonymous

    sometimes things get complicated

  • Anonymous

    [quote post="5484"]Its going to take a lot of hard work and persistence but you will find more and more m4l patches come out over time until the point we have a fully fledged djing solution for M4L that will eventually sum up to be the most powerful DJ tool available to date :)[/quote]

    My head just exploded. Please do this!

  • dennisj

    in other words, max4live makes ableton live open source?

  • http://www.myspace.com/bentosan BentoSan

    [quote comment="30073"]in other words, max4live makes ableton live open source?[/quote]

    Sort of… It gives you an open source feel to a closed source program. Its a fusion between the two different worlds that really takes the advantages of both the different sides of the fence – very unique and very very powerful.

  • ManDingo

    Wha wha what!!? ManDigo got lost after first sentence!!

  • Mudo

    …

    Mix two concepts and welcome to Tooltablism:

  • Patch

    Tooltablism? You’d better patent that right now, Mudo! ;-)

  • Mudo

    …

    It is open source and Moldover and old (30 years make things old?) turntablist are afraid of this concept becuase is like Jeet Kune Do applied to Music Creativity. Not belts, no-limit as a limit, no-way as a way…

    I don’t expect fame only wake up people conscience.

    Be Water, my friends…

    …

  • andy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhfvzTivVLg

    This should also be a good live tool!

  • Nik

    very interesting feature on the power of Ableton Live Software.

    My question is:
    Is there any way to use the vci-100 as a Midi-Controler for DJing in Ableton Live? Any mappings around for that purpose?

    IMO it should be a nice setup to switch between ableton live and traktor scratch pro and control both of them using the vci-100.

  • Sowhat!!

    ok…. so this MAx 4 life is not something like Reaktor?…
    coz Moldover Reaktor on his stuff ….
    and I think i sthe same concept!!!

  • Sowhat!!

    Sorry… Wrong typo..
    ok Max4life…. is Reaktor?…. or Reaktor is Max 4 life…?

  • http://www.djtechtools.com BentoSan

    M4L is kind of like Reactor, except that it does more things than Reaktor can. Then again Reaktor can do a few things audio wise that is more difficult in Max.

    They are to separate programs at any rate, made by entirely different companies.

  • Mudo

    …

    @Nik:
    It could be possible trought maxforlive and LiveApi but there is no coders out there and Brenchs doesn’t understand the really potential (and Ableton use their coders for partnerships and not document the Api for freelances)

    …

  • http://www.djtechtools.com BentoSan

    @Nik

    I researching on how to make such a thing possible, but i think it would be best to wait until Ableton open up the API to have control over the playhead of the clips. Otherwise as soon as that comes out the patch would have to be totally recoded. At the moment there are other useful tools that can be coded that i am working on, so this isnt a high priority at this stage.

    No doubt though it WILL happen.

  • Mudo

    …

    Well Bento with HID objects it could be possible but we need the “puke” words from Vestax microcontroller…

    It is an opportunity to make “business” creating patches for branches but it seems that market is still young…

    :)

    …

  • http://www.djtechtools.com BentoSan

    Mudo,

    Its not that at all, there is just no way to scratch a clip inside of Ableton without loading into some sort of M4L object- which really isn’t scratching a live clip at all. HID isn’t even needed, you can get a VERY compelling scratch response just using midi (if done correctly).

  • Mudo

    …

    Of course! I was talking about send data into Live. Vci are midi but V7 and NS7 are HID… I was thinking in my own needs…

    It could be possible to add these features to Ms. Pinky patch (and upgrade maxipatch and pinkyvst)

    hehe

    About scrubbing in live, I know the issues… and I’m waiting for someone implementing on the fly audio buffering like BeatLookup and automatic scratch (it will cheat the Api limitations) and as a proof of concept:

    http://www.flyloops.com/videogallery/

    check the vid called stacking turntables.

    …

  • http://www.djtechtools.com BentoSan

    You could add those features to the ms Pinky patch yes, however you wouldn’t be using the inbuilt audio playback built into the object. You would instead have to use another file playback object because the Pinky object doesn’t support that kind of fucntionality – i doubt it will anytime soon either, the ms pinky guys still have a huge list of things they have to implement first before getting into that sort of stuff in my opinion.

    As for a suitable playback object in max for on the fly manipulation of on the fly buffered track on top of decent manipulation of a pre-recorded audio clip – i am yet to find such an object that deals with all of my needs. :(

    On another note, i think it should be possible to get a somewhat decent control over the ms pinky patch with a midi jog like the VCI-100 or any other controller for that matter. I might take a look at getting the VCI-300 and VCI-100 jog wheels supported in my version of the patch i am working on.

  • Mudo

    …

    Ok, I see. Thanks for the info about the limitations…

    What necessities do you have? I could do research!

    :)

    …

  • RCUS

    Great article Bento, but I am still waiting for the Bridge as a more practical solution for my Live performances for that traditional “DJ” feel.

    The HUGE thing about Ms. Pinky to me is the practicality of setup in a live situation. It seems that there is alot of specific setup required with Ms. Pinky using a pre-amp and getting the noise threshold or whatever it’s called to be in a sweet spot. Ms. Pinky users feel free to chime in, but that just doesn’t seem like a reliable setup to me. I couldn’t imagine trying to set noise thresholds to proper levels in a loud ass club at 1am.

  • JuanSOLO

    [quote comment="30135"]It seems that there is alot of specific setup required with Ms. Pinky using a pre-amp and getting the noise threshold or whatever it’s called to be in a sweet spot. Ms. Pinky users feel free to chime in, but that just doesn’t seem like a reliable setup to me. I couldn’t imagine trying to set noise thresholds to proper levels in a loud ass club at 1am.[/quote]

    The latest Ms Pinky M4L patch does not really require setting sweet spots as it once did. Once you’ve made your settings rehearsing, they are pretty much good to go upon opening your set anywhere else. I have been using my Audio 8, 2 Decks, Mixer (APC40) and my laptop.

    I think the hardest part about switching to Ms Pinky/Ableton for DJing, is the moments when you are out of your comfort zone from what Traktor or Serato was providing. HOWEVER once you’ve got your set customized to suit your needs, it’s hard to go back to Serato or Traktor.

    If the Bridge finally shows up, it may be spectacular. If M4L finally gets access to scratching clips or some other kind of “Super DVS Sync” Ms Pinky will be over the top!

  • http://www.myspace.com/bentosan BentoSan

    [quote comment="30135"]Great article Bento, but I am still waiting for the Bridge as a more practical solution for my Live performances for that traditional “DJ” feel.

    The HUGE thing about Ms. Pinky to me is the practicality of setup in a live situation. It seems that there is alot of specific setup required with Ms. Pinky using a pre-amp and getting the noise threshold or whatever it’s called to be in a sweet spot. Ms. Pinky users feel free to chime in, but that just doesn’t seem like a reliable setup to me. I couldn’t imagine trying to set noise thresholds to proper levels in a loud ass club at 1am.[/quote]

    A specific setup isn’t really needed at all, you will find these threshold settings are actually setup for you in other DVS pieces of software for you already, ms pinky allows you to manually edit these to suit your own situation. As for preamps every DVS solution out there needs preamps, if you dont want to use preamps then use a soundcard with inbuilt preamps like the Audio 4 dj (which is what i am using atm so i don’t need seperate phono preamps).

    Like Juan said, once you have dimed in the sweet spot which changes from soundcard to soundcard your good to go, no need to reset it every time you play.

  • http://www.myspace.com/djanehillary Hillary Bloch

    [quote comment="30065"][quote post="5484"]LoveRocket
    May 3rd, 2010 at 6:30 pm Quote
    … I read this article I see the videos and all that I absorb is bad music and a lot of complications. This is not good for DJing. This is making DJ’s look at a screen and ignore the crowd for hours. Do your remixing at home and bring it on game day. Sick of this BS crap.[/quote]

    Well if you remember the days when you just mixed 2 tables and a 2ch mixer…then it became 4 cd decks…then DvS’s..its a progression of the art. Its not the tools you use it how you use “your” tools. People come for the MUSIC ……..How much of the sound that the audience hears do you actually intend on manipulating in real time Or do you download the top 10 bitt torent mixes and use a ipod DJ mixer. That is the difference between a electronic musician and a electronic DJ. The gap between the two are becoming smaller as the stability of software and artists creativity expand. Simple[/quote]

    Okies— I’ve never used Max4Live. I use Live Studio & Reaktor & Kore all the time. I really respect good music whatever the style. What I hate most about Max is that ever since the changes for Max came out in Live 8, Live has crashed for me a lot— enough that I’ve thought about leaving Live. It hasn’t gotten better even with Live 8.1.3. I really, really respect how Ableton has thought through how you think about & experience music, especially in performing, but I don’t think Max is for the performer. Max is for your sound engineer, if you have one. I use Reaktor because there are lots of add-ons that work perfectly out of the box: by Native-Instruments, by musicrow, by twistedtools… And I think they are some of the best soft-synths & effects I’ve ever heard. There are 1000+ freely distributable projects too, but a lot of them are really just experiments by engineering-types: neat ideas, proof of concepts, but incomplete, buggy software that isn’t meant for prime time. Reaktor looks a lot like a modular synthesizer and it has components that are analogies for oscillators, patch-bays, filters, etc. Gee– even silly me has been able to make a 4-deck smart-knob base-EQ controller in Reaktor. And it even works. My impression is that Max is a much deeper programming thing.

    About music: I don’t think Max is going to make me a better musician. I’d rather curl up with a copy of Aldwell & Schachter’s Harmony & Voice Leading. I love this comment someone made on the iPad article about how he’d rather hear James Holden mix two tapes decks. The music comes first. Use the instruments that inspire you and help you made great music. I don’t see Max as doing that for someone like me. Maybe someone will make something like Stephen Schmitt’s Reaktor Spark and I’ll completely change my mind.

    Hillary

  • Mudo

    …

    I’m a bit agree and a bit desagree.

    http://www.maxforlive.com/

    http://max4live.info/

    and with reaktor you couldn’t integrate control surfaces into Live like LiveApi and m4L.

    Reaktor needs these library and these efforts to compense no runtime and not really profesional people working on it (it is not so bad at last)

    Search Reactable (made in pure data) and find something similar in reaktor way.

    Maxmsp and pure data are infinite and growing…

    …

  • JuanSOLO

    [quote comment="30158"]
    I really, really respect how Ableton has thought through how you think about & experience music, especially in performing, but I don’t think Max is for the performer.

    Max is for your sound engineer, if you have one.

    Hillary[/quote]

    For someone who hasn’t use Max or M4L, it is obvious by these statements. There is a Video Rack made with M4L that looks just like Ableton’s Drum Rack. There are already a bunch of usb interfacing tools made with M4L, which give one the ability to customize the way they control live, AND Reaktor. There are comparable FX to Reaktor stuff. Ms Pinky DVS!?!? These are just a few “performance” based things already top notch, and most likely improved upon in the next release of Live.

    I love Reaktor and other NI stuff, but for me there abilities have improved, performance wise, upon learning a tiny bit of Max. It feels no more like programming in Reaktor. As much as I love Reaktor, i.e. Vortex, Concept X, BeatLookUp, the Finger, etc, If I had to go without it, I could, and “substitute” NOT replace, these things using M4L. After learning a wee bit of Max, and implementing M4L into my Ableton sets, it would devistate me not to have the ease of control and plethora of tools for performing with Live.

    Dont get me wrong, I would hate to be without Reaktor, and I don’t think one solution is better than another. M4L does things you just couldn’t do in Live before, it’s fairly easy to learn (if you read), and make performing more fun. If I am having more fun, I am a better musician as a result, just a personal opinion.

  • http://www.myspace.com/djanehillary Hillary Bloch

    “…. but I don’t think Max is for the performer. Max is for your sound engineer, if you have one.”

    Okies— I should have been more careful. This was just my opinion from what little I know. I haven’t bought Max4Live; I tried to run the demo, but it’s never worked on my Macbook, and from the support forums at Ableton, it looked as though some other Mac people couldn’t run it either. Maybe we’re just stupid people. Anyways, my personal opinion is that Max4Live isn’t for me and Max really looks to me like a complicated engineer’s thing. Maybe I’d change my mind if I bought it and got into it, but it doesn’t look worth it for me right now. But— thanks to Bento San for writing the article and thanks to everyone for neat comments. Wait— does Bento San mean Mr. Lunchbox? –Hillary

  • Mudo

    …

    There is an issue with registered live users and “demo” maxforlive (again closed licences issues…) but if you run live as demo you could try it and notice the performance an so on.

    maxmsp/maxforlive/pure data are not so “intuitive” like reaktor but in the other hand you gain “possibilities” which reaktor haven’t. There is also a lot of webpages working on tutorials, a lot of stuff made in maxmsp becoming ported to live and the opportunity of implement visuals into your gigs (but you need maxmsp run in your computer too).

    It is expensive but the most powerfull tool for live performing nowadays. You could purchase premade solutions like “the finger” it is ok and fast workflow but you couldn’t expect mod anything or implement monomes, pinkys, apcs, vci… and so on in a full loop chop video masher without maxmsp, pure data or things far difficult (and less documented) like superCollider, Quartz Composer…

    Maxforlive is the middle point, a bit difficult compared with reaktor a bit powerfull (with Live) compared with everything.

    Not perfect, of course (I will love pd-ext for live!)

    ;)

    …

  • http://www.djdelacroix.it/ Marco Rossi

    I think it’s a very accurate and interesting article! Max + Live + Creativity means you can do almost everything! I wonder if could be nice to control Max + Live with an Ipad!

  • RCUS

    interesting! thanks for the updated info Bento and JuanSolo. I think my course of action is still to wait till the Bridge is released then do a proper comparison, but that’s good to know about Ms. Pinky.

  • I’ve heard max is buggy

    Does anyone know if ableton had resumed working on the max for live bugs. I was going to buy max until I found out that they stopped working on max so they could fix all the bugs in live 8 and then proceed to work on getting “the bridge” out. I’ve heard lots of folks say that max for live causes 8 to crash quite a bit.

    anyone got some input

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    I am musing with the idea of using Max4Live to do more with my APC40, Live, and the oodles of AU/VST thingies that I’ll never really have the time to really understand. After searching and searching on google, I’ve found maybe one good reason for using Max4Live: http://thestudiosessions.co.uk/ If you’re a DJ, I think you might like it. But you’ll prolly like Traktor Pro better.

    May I rant just a wee-bit?

    I don’t think Max4Live and open source should be used in the same sentence—ever. Peter Kirn has an informed & thoughtful explanation why: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/11/24/max-for-live-comes-with-some-strings-attached-for-creators/

    I think it’s great that people have made neat projects with Ms. Pinky, but… um, I think that if it’s really about great music, you have to hear and think and live and focus on great music: you don’t need a computer, and you can do it while you’re just 6 or 8 years old if it’s in your soul: http://www.youtube.com/user/sarascratch#p/u/17/wbQiQEEVY1A

    Music makes the world a better place. ^_^

    Best, Hillary

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