Comments on: HID- The beginning of the end. http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/04/22/hid-the-beginning-of-the-end/ A Complete Resource for Digital DJ Information and Technology Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:39:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: DJ TechTools  |  The Beginning of the end. Pt 2 http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/04/22/hid-the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-2/#comment-99704 DJ TechTools  |  The Beginning of the end. Pt 2 Tue, 10 Jan 2012 02:07:24 +0000 http://www.djtechtools.com/?p=1288#comment-99704 [...] by Ean Golden on May 3rd, 2009 33 Comments 2 weeks ago we wrote a controversial article on the effect of HID on MIDI in the digital dj world. There are a lot of great points in the [...] [...] by Ean Golden on May 3rd, 2009 33 Comments 2 weeks ago we wrote a controversial article on the effect of HID on MIDI in the digital dj world. There are a lot of great points in the [...]

]]> By: Mudo http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/04/22/hid-the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-2/#comment-17775 Mudo Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:21:04 +0000 http://www.djtechtools.com/?p=1288#comment-17775 ... Common sense statment at last! ... …

Common sense statment at last!

…

]]> By: ToS http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/04/22/hid-the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-17765 ToS Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:15:03 +0000 http://www.djtechtools.com/?p=1288#comment-17765 Well it would not be a simple task. I think about sending an email to a set of popular digital-dj manufacturers and let them submit their questions to DJTT. After that join all into one big poll, add our own (from one forum thread maybe) and let the djtt community (and maybe scratchworkx and other) fill it out. Internet is here, users are here, why not use it and let the companies know what the world wants. My assumtion is that it should have a better impact than everyone sending out email on his own. (And we all know that assumption is a mother of all f**kups.) Well it would not be a simple task.

I think about sending an email to a set of popular digital-dj manufacturers and let them submit their questions to DJTT. After that join all into one big poll, add our own (from one forum thread maybe) and let the djtt community (and maybe scratchworkx and other) fill it out.

Internet is here, users are here, why not use it and let the companies know what the world wants.

My assumtion is that it should have a better impact than everyone sending out email on his own. (And we all know that assumption is a mother of all f**kups.)

]]> By: Ean Golden http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/04/22/hid-the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-17763 Ean Golden Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:56:02 +0000 http://www.djtechtools.com/?p=1288#comment-17763 [quote comment=""] After that you can show the results of this poll to the manufacturers.[/quote] just finished a follow up article to this one that explains the situation in more detail. like the idea of including a poll in that article but what would we ask exactly? [quote comment=""]

After that you can show the results of this poll to the manufacturers.[/quote]

just finished a follow up article to this one that explains the situation in more detail. like the idea of including a poll in that article but what would we ask exactly?

]]> By: ToS http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/04/22/hid-the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-17762 ToS Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:46:02 +0000 http://www.djtechtools.com/?p=1288#comment-17762 fiddler: Us cough*programmers*cough looove our comm.protocols. RE. last post: I we need a big fat poll right now, altogh it is logical what the answers will be. Bento, what says ye, contact me via messenger to discuss the question list(also ask other)? After that you can show the results of this poll to the manufacturers. fiddler: Us cough*programmers*cough looove our comm.protocols.

RE. last post: I we need a big fat poll right now, altogh it is logical what the answers will be. Bento, what says ye, contact me via messenger to discuss the question list(also ask other)?

After that you can show the results of this poll to the manufacturers.

]]> By: Snaps http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/04/22/hid-the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-17761 Snaps Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:31:37 +0000 http://www.djtechtools.com/?p=1288#comment-17761 This comment is some what late but I might be able to add some perspective concerning using something to the like of OSC as a replacement for MIDI in future D.J & many other music/video software based controllers, and show HIDs implementation as more of a "in house proprietary Hardware Layer code" like the firmware and chipset's machine code circuits in say an iPhone. First a HID system just makes the hardware/software engineers who are designing the DJ controllers that much easier because they can develop it at the "hardware level" any way they feel fit and then just make smart drivers for "any" DJ software developers to hook into with their DJ software systems, that also makes DJ software houses very happy too, they dont need to know the guts of the device much. Now concerning a new Data communications for controllers that is more open source, OSC is a "communications protocol" that can be sent over networks like the one in our homes, business and internet via TCP/IP or UDP protocols. A proprietary version of this is being used in the name of EuCon by Logic, Steinberg, Sonar, Euphonix, Motu , Apogee to name a few. Think about it u could route OSC controller data from anywhere to anyplace there is a network for it to move over, no need to be concerned with distances of devices, just using the network available, ethernet, firberoptic,wireless! It also uses URL -"Universal Resource Locator data, this specifies where an identified resource is available and the mechanism for retrieving it", this could make auto-configuration of any OSC compliant device an instant task. The "DJ/VJ software" can now be on any computer anywhere on the planet ready to access, so long as the computer is connect to a network that can be accessed by the OSC compliant "DJ/VJ controller", yeah think of a Google online DJ software ready to go anytime anywhere, with any OSC compliant controller, how about Google online VJ software intergrated with Google Search-engine for Flicker pictures,YouTube vidz so u now have the whole Flicker & Youtube library at your VJ OSC compliant controller fingertips, no need to bring an external Hard Drive, all done from your VJ OSC controller connected to say a cheap portable netbook that also has video out for any large viewing screen. Now to address the matter of protecting the "bottom-line" of manufactures of DJ controller-hardware by locking a specific software with a specific controller every time a new release of either takes place, by the use of proprietary HID programing, this type of programing is done in products such as an iPhone in the chip-sets and there implementation, but there is a SDK-software development kit for people to write almost any type of software that plugs into the lower level HID like proprietary driver systems. In my opinion I very much doubt that hardware controller manufactures will "Develop exclusive types of hardware control and use it as leverage against the software boys" . Hardware manufactures need Software developers and visa-versa especially in niche markets like DJ controllers, if either threatens the other too much that eco-system will implode and I would say the DJ consumer would let them know it before hand by not buying there products anymore. If anyone out there does not want a lock down on hardware and software let these manufactures know via email, at DJ equipment dealerships and at trade shows. So as long as DJ controller and software manufactures allow some kind of SDK to developers and the public even if it comes with a price tag and use OSC or any other "open data communication system that is an agreed on industry standard", all should be good. If not than Ean Goldens has correctly foretold the future of DJ controllers and I would add the demise of DJ controller & software manufactures that engage in that practice, but I would guess this will more than likely give rise to an open source based like systems buy opportunistic companies that see a great opening this could lead to reseting the practices of the industry, and gets peoples trust in buying DJ gear again thus reaffirming a better product design model for industry and consumers. And lastly I would like to thank Ean for a great site and for all the creative MODs he shares on the internet with other like minds, thanks! This comment is some what late but I might be able to add some perspective concerning using something to the like of OSC as a replacement for MIDI in future D.J & many other music/video software based controllers, and show HIDs implementation as more of a "in house proprietary Hardware Layer code" like the firmware and chipset's machine code circuits in say an iPhone. First a HID system just makes the hardware/software engineers who are designing the DJ controllers that much easier because they can develop it at the "hardware level" any way they feel fit and then just make smart drivers for "any" DJ software developers to hook into with their DJ software systems, that also makes DJ software houses very happy too, they dont need to know the guts of the device much. Now concerning a new Data communications for controllers that is more open source, OSC is a "communications protocol" that can be sent over networks like the one in our homes, business and internet via TCP/IP or UDP protocols. A proprietary version of this is being used in the name of EuCon by Logic, Steinberg, Sonar, Euphonix, Motu , Apogee to name a few. Think about it u could route OSC controller data from anywhere to anyplace there is a network for it to move over, no need to be concerned with distances of devices, just using the network available, ethernet, firberoptic,wireless! It also uses URL -"Universal Resource Locator data, this specifies where an identified resource is available and the mechanism for retrieving it", this could make auto-configuration of any OSC compliant device an instant task. The "DJ/VJ software" can now be on any computer anywhere on the planet ready to access, so long as the computer is connect to a network that can be accessed by the OSC compliant "DJ/VJ controller", yeah think of a Google online DJ software ready to go anytime anywhere, with any OSC compliant controller, how about Google online VJ software intergrated with Google Search-engine for Flicker pictures,YouTube vidz so u now have the whole Flicker & Youtube library at your VJ OSC compliant controller fingertips, no need to bring an external Hard Drive, all done from your VJ OSC controller connected to say a cheap portable netbook that also has video out for any large viewing screen. Now to address the matter of protecting the "bottom-line" of manufactures of DJ controller-hardware by locking a specific software with a specific controller every time a new release of either takes place, by the use of proprietary HID programing, this type of programing is done in products such as an iPhone in the chip-sets and there implementation, but there is a SDK-software development kit for people to write almost any type of software that plugs into the lower level HID like proprietary driver systems. In my opinion I very much doubt that hardware controller manufactures will "Develop exclusive types of hardware control and use it as leverage against the software boys" . Hardware manufactures need Software developers and visa-versa especially in niche markets like DJ controllers, if either threatens the other too much that eco-system will implode and I would say the DJ consumer would let them know it before hand by not buying there products anymore. If anyone out there does not want a lock down on hardware and software let these manufactures know via email, at DJ equipment dealerships and at trade shows. So as long as DJ controller and software manufactures allow some kind of SDK to developers and the public even if it comes with a price tag and use OSC or any other "open data communication system that is an agreed on industry standard", all should be good. If not than Ean Goldens has correctly foretold the future of DJ controllers and I would add the demise of DJ controller & software manufactures that engage in that practice, but I would guess this will more than likely give rise to an open source based like systems buy opportunistic companies that see a great opening this could lead to reseting the practices of the industry, and gets peoples trust in buying DJ gear again thus reaffirming a better product design model for industry and consumers. And lastly I would like to thank Ean for a great site and for all the creative MODs he shares on the internet with other like minds, thanks!

]]> By: midifidler http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/04/22/hid-the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-17754 midifidler Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:58:48 +0000 http://www.djtechtools.com/?p=1288#comment-17754 [quote comment=""]LoL…. esp considering how people are trying to say I’m wrong for saying that the turntable will not become obsolete.[/quote] This really depends on your definition of obsolete. This is where you are missing the point, yes people still ride horses, yet the automobile made the horse obsolete as a mode of transport quite sometime ago. The first comment you made on this thread was [quote comment=""]First off…… Controllers will NEVER take over the role of the turntable. That is like saying the car is going to make the bicycle obsolete. Each platform has it’s ups and it’s downs.[/quote] From this I think I am right in assuming your definition of obsolescence is "to take over the role" of. So assuming the role of the TT you refer to is that of #1 DJ media player of choice I guess even by your own definition of obsolescence TT is already obsolete, as how often do you actually see people using vinyl as opposed to CDJ’s. Don’t get me wrong here, I'm not trying to say turntables will be disappearing from booths any bedrooms any time soon, just that they have been superseded by convenience. The reason I say the analogy is poor is that what physical/emotional connection does someone have with a fucking software protocol ..... none! Vinyl on the other hand has a physical form, 1200's look pretty, you have to touch them just right or they wont do what you want, as we all know the list goes on. This is why vinyl will not die. [quote comment=""]Maybe they will end up using MIDI signals to control HID controllers….. Just like Serato and Scratch uses the wax record to control the software. [/quote] But… I should have realized that comment was going to get attacked considering everyone here is a digital DJ who prob never even matched beats with turntables (a feeling EVERY dj should experience one day BTW)…. [/quote] I take it from these comments and your continuous use of the term “wax” you are one of these old school vinyl cats who is worried about becoming obsolete. I think you will find the vast majority of people involved in this website started where your skills have become stuck … [quote comment=""]LoL…. esp considering how people are trying to say I’m wrong for saying that the turntable will not become obsolete.[/quote]

This really depends on your definition of obsolete. This is where you are missing the point, yes people still ride horses, yet the automobile made the horse obsolete as a mode of transport quite sometime ago.

The first comment you made on this thread was

[quote comment=""]First off…… Controllers will NEVER take over the role of the turntable. That is like saying the car is going to make the bicycle obsolete. Each platform has it’s ups and it’s downs.[/quote]

From this I think I am right in assuming your definition of obsolescence is "to take over the role" of.

So assuming the role of the TT you refer to is that of #1 DJ media player of choice I guess even by your own definition of obsolescence TT is already obsolete, as how often do you actually see people using vinyl as opposed to CDJ’s.

Don’t get me wrong here, I'm not trying to say turntables will be disappearing from booths any bedrooms any time soon, just that they have been superseded by convenience.

The reason I say the analogy is poor is that what physical/emotional connection does someone have with a fucking software protocol ….. none!

Vinyl on the other hand has a physical form, 1200's look pretty, you have to touch them just right or they wont do what you want, as we all know the list goes on.

This is why vinyl will not die.

[quote comment=""]Maybe they will end up using MIDI signals to control HID controllers….. Just like Serato and Scratch uses the wax record to control the software. [/quote]

But… I should have realized that comment was going to get attacked considering everyone here is a digital DJ who prob never even matched beats with turntables (a feeling EVERY dj should experience one day BTW)…. [/quote]

I take it from these comments and your continuous use of the term “wax” you are one of these old school vinyl cats who is worried about becoming obsolete.

I think you will find the vast majority of people involved in this website started where your skills have become stuck …

]]> By: DJ Quartz http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/04/22/hid-the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-17746 DJ Quartz Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:52:06 +0000 http://www.djtechtools.com/?p=1288#comment-17746 I'm not sure why everyone thinks the NS7 support is closed. I have mapped pretty much 98% if the controls to Traktor Scratch Pro. Last night I found the CC + controller values that control the platters. Yes, the midi map was not available from Numark but it just took a little bit of time and patience to grab all the values and know what they do. So my main project will be getting the NS7 working 100% with Traktor Scratch Pro. Currently I use Itch until I get everything working. What is nice is you can use the Numark interface as your audio device in Traktor Scratch Pro whereas there is no support in SSL for the NS7 at all. I'm not sure why everyone thinks the NS7 support is closed. I have mapped pretty much 98% if the controls to Traktor Scratch Pro.

Last night I found the CC + controller values that control the platters.

Yes, the midi map was not available from Numark but it just took a little bit of time and patience to grab all the values and know what they do.

So my main project will be getting the NS7 working 100% with Traktor Scratch Pro.

Currently I use Itch until I get everything working. What is nice is you can use the Numark interface as your audio device in Traktor Scratch Pro whereas there is no support in SSL for the NS7 at all.

]]>