Comments on: Midi Latencey Interview with a Pro

By: DJ ToS

DJ ToS — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:17:15 +0000

Using OSC is a whole another level. Some reasons:
- osc is ethernet based, this means you will not be able to connect your midi device to anything else but a computer(at this moment).
- osc uses adresses vs. midi that uses 7 bits. The integrated circuit that should be running OSC sor starters needs bigger memory pool to store all the OSC textual paths.
You need better, faster and more expensive IC to have OSC integrated.

By: Kassin

Kassin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:31:44 +0000

Great post, thanks for that! I wonder how OSC would perform over the forthcoming Midi 2. And why are the so few OSC controllers / software around ? OSC is presumably a lot better…

By: nico

nico — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:55:55 +0000

Ok, tried this: Logic send two test tones (needle pulse on the whole spectrum), one in deck A, one in deck B. Internal mixer is used, then audio goes in Audiofile Spectre spectrogram. You can clearly see the action of the EQ of T3 (my version is 3.2.2, btw, and I’ve tested the P600 EQ). It is very easy to watch what the EQ does to the whole spectrum, mid is plainly centered around 1000Hz, the curve is obvious when you turn it up or down. You also plainly see the other needle pulse test tone (I’ve moved it a bit in frequency and volume). When you turn up the mid or low EQ of A, the response of B doesn’t seems to change in the highs. Sorry.

Now, I’ve just got to do some listening tests to be sure :)

By: nico

nico — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:52:27 +0000

So either I suck, or there is a problem. Will train some more to see if this is me or the jitter…

TRAINing is the word! If you train, you’ll train yourself to avoid that error, probably by budstracting delta T/2, which is roughly 7ms.
Then, after that, you’ll be of no use to us. :-)
Btw, can’t wait for that test ableton-traktor-ableton results.

Lol! You get used to latency, and you compensate after a while, but to compensate for jitter you will have to develop precognitive abilities. I can already see the title of the paper in the Journal of Parapsychology: “A model of possible precognition effects in entertainers using an unreliable random MIDI controller” :)

By: DJ ToS

DJ ToS — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:13:54 +0000

So either I suck, or there is a problem. Will train some more to see if this is me or the jitter…

TRAINing is the word! If you train, you’ll train yourself to avoid that error, probably by budstracting delta T/2, which is roughly 7ms.
Then, after that, you’ll be of no use to us. :-)
Btw, can’t wait for that test ableton-traktor-ableton results.

By: nico

nico — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 09:22:19 +0000

Guess an analog mixtable is the way to go :)

In the case of traktor, analog mixer is a way to go in any case…
NI TDS has a problem with joining multiple channels. It has some kind of frequency compression while using INTERNAL MIXER.
Simple test: try listening to two songs mixed in together, remember the quality of the sound. After that, add some more mid or low freqs. from either of the song. I notice a loss in the hig-freq.(loss in what way, I can’t determine). Please not that main volume is at -5dB and compressor(that button that prevents clipping) is not on.
I haven’t tried mixing all four decks, that must sound interesting.
Someone please confirm this.

Interesting, never noticed that, I have an external mixer with two channels. Also I smart mix TDS into Live, so the summing up of decks A&C or B&D is done in Live. I’m very happy with the sound. So at least there is a way around that!

Will try what you say later, by running some test tone generator in Live and routing them in each TDS deck, then summing up the audio in the internal mixer. Will get back the audio from the mixer in my soundcard input, and feed it back to Live where I’ll have a spectrogram running. This way if summing up and using the eq of the internal mixer cause problems, it will be obvious. Did some stuff like that to see what the Key Lock was doing with the sound, and you clearly see some harmonics as soon as you engage it, but it isn’t too bad.

Ok, tried the punching in and out of the audio with the BCR and it is super fun! I have the button reversed, so the track is on when you press the button, and off when you release it. You can do some wicked fast cutting/punching in this way. Overall it works, but sometimes you have the effect I’ve described above. So either I suck, or there is a problem. Will train some more to see if this is me or the jitter, but I suspect the jitter is causing it, sometimes I’m sure I’m on time and the attack of the beat isn’t heard (which is incredibly lame sounding, btw).

By: DJ ToS

DJ ToS — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 00:20:16 +0000

Guess an analog mixtable is the way to go :)

In the case of traktor, analog mixer is a way to go in any case…
NI TDS has a problem with joining multiple channels. It has some kind of frequency compression while using INTERNAL MIXER.
Simple test: try listening to two songs mixed in together, remember the quality of the sound. After that, add some more mid or low freqs. from either of the song. I notice a loss in the hig-freq.(loss in what way, I can’t determine). Please not that main volume is at -5dB and compressor(that button that prevents clipping) is not on.
I haven’t tried mixing all four decks, that must sound interesting.
Someone please confirm this.

By: nico

nico — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 20:31:13 +0000

Jitter is scary :-0!

we are currently wondering if DVS has jitter

Mmmm. What’s DVS? :)

Digital Vynil Control System aka Serato Scratch

Awww. This could be a major pain. What do people say on this? Did they notice that scratching tends to be unpredictable? (I guess scratching would be the most affected by this).

On the other hand ‘regular’ mixing should be mostly ok, depends on your mixing style (long drawn movements vs short rhythmic). So far my setup is working all right for me.

I’ll try cutting the volume in and out on the beat with the BCR tomorrow. I’ll assign a on/off press button to send 0/127 volume. It’s usually a good telltale sign of latency issues: if you have randomness in the controls, the attack of the beat becomes mangled or comes back too early. Guess an analog mixtable is the way to go :)